No comeback possible?

[gozo1985]

When all CPs are capured there is no serious way to make a comeback.
There was a problem some versions/time ago where it was too easy to come back becouse of the creep gold. After the update and hundreds of games I havent seen a comeback no matter ranked or qualify. If you hold your CPs (with a minimum effort) or get down some base factories of enemy base its over.

Problems at Defense:
- Your receive less gold then the enemy team (over a long distance)
- Its pretty hard to get a high Tank/Weapons if the enemy team is aware of
- You need to spend gold for defence Structures (Towers, CPs, Repairs,...)
- You are in a hurry, becouse of the gold advantage every 5min
- Creeps getting leveled up faster and keep pushing you back to base.
- Motivation

I do understand sometimes why people giving up after the enemy captured every CP, becouse right now it seems close to impossible to make a comeback. Ofcourse destroying the base is part of the game but many (not me) think its "just a waste of time" to keep fighting and defending, while you still losing the game.

What do you think?

[Max]

Hi,

Well actually it is really hard to get back but not impossible. The worst thing is that most of players, as you say, stop fighting or just troll until the end of the game because "it's lost"...

Anyway I think you are right : it's too hard to come back.

But it's hard to choose what to change : you have to get advantages by holding more cp (==> more gold / creeps level up faster).
The only thing could be high tanks purchasing. There are just a few players skilled enough to succeed in getting a high tank when opponents put breakers and camp you. Most of the time it ends like that : want a tank with 20-15 k/d stats and get it at 20-30 :/
It would be nice to make a change for this point.

[Max]

Re,

Well here it is : 1 game 1 come back

We played 5vs4 in an almost even game but then they took the advantage getting all cp and destroying all facs. Finally we made it.

I know what you're gonna say, it's 5vs4 so it's easier to make a come back than 5vs5 but still.

(I still keep the idea of tank shop : if you look at the replay sk and I went crazy because blue didn't understand how to get the tank with 2 guys helping him...)

[gozo1985]

I know what you're gonna say, it's 5vs4 so it's easier to make a come back than 5vs5 but still.

you knew it
...but you know, I never said its impossible. The topic is wrote down as a question to share experience.

There are situations where its totally unclear whos winning, even if some Base Facs are down or all CPs are captured.
Your already wrote, in a solid, (close to) even game its too hard to start a serious comeback. I have many many ideas how to change it, but its very hard here in this community to come up with suggestions for changes everyone agrees with (no offense). Also some of these ideas are maybe a bit too brisk for many here and need a bigger update and time investment in scripting..

Some smaller changes which might help are:
- cheaper base defensive structures
- emergency cash for losing last CP (only once) and first and last base Fac
- increasing capturing time for CPs if you already own some
- and so on

[eSVau]

There are situations where its totally unclear whos winning, even if some Base Facs are down or all CPs are captured.
Your already wrote, in a solid, (close to) even game its too hard to start a serious comeback. I have many many ideas how to change it, but its very hard here in this community to come up with suggestions for changes everyone agrees with (no offense). Also some of these ideas are maybe a bit too brisk for many here and need a bigger update and time investment in scripting..

Some smaller changes which might help are:
- cheaper base defensive structures
- emergency cash for losing last CP (only once) and first and last base Fac
- increasing capturing time for CPs if you already own some
- and so on

The major problem is that such measures prolongs a game. And currently shortening average game duration while not shifting game balance at all (like high *shrug* bounty did) has a higher priority than supporting come back.
Both problems are diametrically opposed.

[gozo1985]

And currently shortening average game duration while not shifting game balance at all (like high *shrug* bounty did) has a higher priority than supporting come back.

I dont get it. Is it a plan from dev side shortening the game duration with the next updates? sorry if this question is a bit offtopic.

[Exodus]

And currently shortening average game duration while not shifting game balance at all (like high *shrug* bounty did) has a higher priority than supporting come back.

I dont get it. Is it a plan from dev side shortening the game duration with the next updates? sorry if this question is a bit offtopic.

It's more or less a continuous process. I didn't plan anything specific for the next version to shorten games. But as a matter of fact people seem to dislike Titan Wars or in general overlong games (talking about 2h+ here).
So what I have been trying to do over the last years, was to do some subtle changes or the addition of options to speed up the game in general or the base siege. The problem with that though, is the fact that comeback are somewhat less likely.

But you have to consider that comeback should only be possible when both teams are kinda close skill-wise. If they are not and it's still possible to do a comeback, it's possible to drag out games for ever (like in those super long games) and it also doesn't feel right for at least half of the players. What I think has been happening lately, is just that as the community shrinks, the games tend to be more unbalanced, skill-wise. This eventually leads to more one-sided games.

Changing the game in a way to make comebacks easier, without robbing one side of their deserved victory is a very delicate process.

[gozo1985]

thanks for the statement.
i agree now. making games end faster is totally ok i guess. right now fast games with 20-40 mins more likely end becouse of leavers and stupids. it would be nice to have a 40 min game with no leavers, but therefor the only change which can be done is increasing the bounties, otherwise hightend tanks and weapons are obsolete.

[EarthR]

thanks for the statement.
i agree now. making games end faster is totally ok i guess. right now fast games with 20-40 mins more likely end becouse of leavers and stupids. it would be nice to have a 40 min game with no leavers, but therefor the only change which can be done is increasing the bounties, otherwise hightend tanks and weapons are obsolete.

well thats what HB mode was. It would create a huge imba between skilled and not so skilled player really early on. More like getting more gold at income could somewhat make games proceed faster without screwing it that much

[gozo1985]

more gold every 5mins to make game faster sounds good - yes i remember HB time and DeathMagic OP and also the edge between skilled and low players :/

[griffin1987]

What game time are we aiming for by the way? Because most people seem to only join games to see the victory screen, and nothing else. For these people a command would probably be good, something like -showMeVictoryScreen. For everyone else, most of the time I think it's more along the line of what Exodus said: 2h+ is too long for most people (even I very seldom enjoy games which go beyond the 2h mark) - but I wouldn't like game duration targeted at 20-40 minutes, because that's what most games are already right now due to too many leavers, people flaming, standing in the corner of the base, being afk etc. So, unless it's possible to better the situation wrt that first, I don't think it makes sense to further shorten games.

In contrary - I think making a comeback easier again would reduce the people who giveup after 5 minutes because they died once, or leave after 2 minutes because they think it's over already. Currently most people seem to be "OMG the enemy has one creep more NO CHANCE TO WIN ANYMORE!!! I must leave right this second! And dont forget to afk before that, after insulting everyone and trying to blow up my own base and teammates! I know this is the right thing to do as the kick system protects me and it's so much for fun to destroy the game for other people than just play for fun!".

I hope you get this is all a bit exaggerated and with some sarcasm, but it's more or less how I perceive current games, and I've been playing a couple of games every few days in ranked as well as qualify over the past year (besides the years before that, but we're talking about the recent developements ...), so it's not a one time thing either.

Anyway: My vote goes to making comeback possible again and dealing with overlength games in their own way if it really becomes a problem again ( sudden death mode anyone? )

[EarthR]

only way to make a comeback is having better tanks,having teamplay and most important having patience(usually after 1 team loses a cp the entire team try to rambo the cp and end up losing another one) no other way possible. Because its only natural the one who controlls the map should get more gold/advantage