Request ban removal for: excessive flaming

[Teo_live]

I have been guilty of flaming, which I should not have done. Though like many the flaming only happens when someone flames first. Now yes tit-for-tat is immature and I am sorry I flamed, but I don't think its fair that people ban requesting are allowed to flame while to accused is not. Surely there should be grounds on which one can defend himself against flame.

The person that ban requested me not only started a flame war with me but he also said he will get his "corrupt admins" to ban me for no reason. WTF? If that's not bad flame then I dunno what is

League Game behavior rules:
Play nice and don't offend your fellow players and opponents
Don't leave the game to often it will ruin your team and the game
Don't sap your team with unnecessary idling if it seems you're loosing
Cover and defend your teammates when possible to reduce teams deaths
Encourage your teammates doing a good job when they succeed in something
Even if your entire team doesn't accept surrender, don't get mad at them
Don't flame people playing bad, tell them and encourage better teamwork

The person that ban requested me broke the rule underlined, and yes so did I (he was doing bad too so I flamed him just as much). So I deserved the ban... but then so did the accuser.

Now I am not condoning my actions, what I did was wrong I know that and flaming excessively wasn't smart. I cannot promise that I will never have a bad game again as I am human afterall, but I can promise I will not flame excessively again even if it is just as they flamed first. So I hope my ban for flaming gets removed, I also hope that ban requests get dismissed if the ban accuser provokes a flame war in the first place. I noticed several people got banned for flaming-while-provoked so I suspect their will be a few requests like these. Thanks for your time

[Saiyuki]

original ban request: http://btanks.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=43225#p43225

been a while since i did a timeline on the actions done, but for this, let me do it again:
01] 0:00:23 - you took your time choosing tinker, only choosing him when an enemy demolisher with the chance to instant kill you, already been in mid lane, wasting a bit time to already build up the first tower
02] 0:01:22 - 1st death by choosing to stand quite close to the enemies by demolisher
03] 0:01:31 - 1st comment about bad teamplay by yourself, not as you mentioned by your teammates
04] 0:02:04 - 2nd death by demolisher, again you prefered to fight with your weapon close to enemies instead of putting it into your tower
05] 0:03:18 - PaPPa_Dee suggestioning you picking up a tank
06] 0:03:23 - 3rd death, ignoring 2 enemy tanks in range for attack, placed tower now is blocking fast movement in mid. by now you got 1 death per minute
07] 0:03:32 - you writing about bad teamplay in CAPS, starting the 'flame war'
08] 0:04:18 - 1st encounter of an insult by you to PaPPa_Dee
09] 0:04:45 - you mentioning the game being already lost by loosing one of your misplaced towers
10] 0:05:02 - adding other players to your reasoning of bad teamplay and its consequences for this game
11] 0:05:13 - no useful actions done by you for 40s but flaming (you could for example have put up tower modules in allied towers for lane or mid)
12] 0:05:23 - building up your 3rd tower in the whole game so far, not blocking now (iron hull now available)
13] 0:06:36 - PaPPa_Dee waliking in another mine, no radar module anywhere so far
14] 0:07:20 - building up another tower
< - - - i stop posting a timeline for each occured flame - - - >
15] 0:08:34 - some weird textmessages, would be great to get a translation for these... ^^
16] 0:08:54 - 4th death for walking into a mine, trying to get a rune instead of choosing the safe controlpoint
17] 0:09:18 - constructing 4th tinker tower now
18] 0:09:44 - purple getting ready for some mortar actions (siege pack).
19] 0:09:52 - all tinker towers demolished
20] 0:10:00 - another message about bad teamplay by yourself
21] 0:11:02 - not playing for 1 minute, but the usual comments, PaPPa_Dee starting too
22] 0:11:45 - one enemy successfully kicked, you still stay tinker against tank with siege pack
23] 0:14:41 - again all your tinker towers have been demolished
24] 0:16:29 - mid towers demolished, cannon tower at cp still standing (without any modules), orange joining mid after conquering top
25] 0:18:02 - finnally switching to tank (air ship) but only with your iron hull (still not upgraded), weapon dropped at automatically demolished tinker tower location
26] 0:18:13 - again some weird language... ^^
< - - - i stop posting a timeline for each unreasonable death - - - >
27] 0:21:32 - dying after some kamikaze action (hunting with only tank cannon and energy torpedo)
28] 0:23:25 - another insulting done by you
29] 0:23:59 - and again another insult, not even being provoked to
30] 0:25:38 - no teamplay at all, just pure standing (flying) around not doing anything useful
31] 0:27:00 - some facts: 27min ingame, air ship, iron hull not upgraded, one energy tornedo upgraded, 2.800 Gold
32] 0:29:40 - not staying focused, being hunted down by red, another death
33] 0:30:00 - swarm rockets now as second weapon (not counted: tank cannon)
34] 0:35:58 - again trying to hunt red down, but again loosing and dying
35] 0:36:46 - randomly starting a kick vote (not effective) against PaPPa_Dee
< - - - since now mainly light force loosing game, cp's, much flaming, at most defensive actions done by Teo_live - - - >
36] 0:50:05 - some facts: 50min ingame, air ship, iron hull not upgraded, gold hull not upgraded, one energy tornedo not upgraded, one swarm cannon upgraded, 2.200 Gold, stats 1:11
< - - - nothing much to add anymore, 3 teamplayers flaming until loosing the game - - - >

it's now up for other players and my co-admins to discuss whether or not this ban may get lifted. as usual i won't get to decide this.

[Teo_live]

You left out the part of him accusing admins of being corrupt in his favor but yes it definitely was not the best game of mine :x , Though the main reason I got banned was for flaming right. As I said before I cannot promise not having a bad game again, we are all human and it happens every now and then. Though I can promise a no flame war again, hopefully that's enough to get a second chance.

30] 0:25:38 - no teamplay at all, just pure standing (flying) around not doing anything useful

That's sorta what happens when your too scared to anything cause you know u will die, I fed enough in that game I didn't wanna feed more >.>

it's now up for other players and my co-admins to discuss whether or not this ban may get lifted. as usual i won't get to decide this.

Other players? Like PaPPa_Dee's friends? This won't be fun, I already have 3 notorious haters. Hopefully they stay out of this thread and decision will come down to the admins instead of a "friends vs friends" showdown. Thanks for looking into it anyway

[stibi-]

i'd like to point at this post
http://btanks.net/forum/viewtopic.php?p=43280#p43280

nobody "hates" you for no reason!

everybody likes to play tinker once in a while & might fail but you're failing every single game with your "strategy". on top of that YOU are arrogant and blame the OTHER ONES (i.e. they fuck your stats, dont protect your towers, etc) - what an attitude! people dont wanna play with you because you just.dont.get.it.that.this.is.incredible.annoying. FACE IT! you can't denie it.
you've played nearly 50 games ... you are not a newbie anymore ...

your last games:
0 9
5 7
5 17
12 23
23 43
12 26
3 18
18 39
14 16 <-- nearly positive!
8 34

you dont have a crap k/d ratio because you like to share hp or die because you try to save another player :roll:

get over it, make a new acc & change your strategy & stop to piss people off

as for myself i dont care if you stay banned or not - i leave the lobby straight away when i see you

[olivercamel]

I'd show my respect to Saiyuki. He is really spending time to do a good work for processing the ban request. (Even list every details with timeline happened in the game).

I was in that game too. Playing in the mid lane with teo_live and pappa_d from the beginning. So maybe I can leave some comments from my side.

Personaly and very honestly I dislike teo_live to be my teammate. I got this feeling from the beginning of the game when teo_live died for several times, but he blamed the other players didn't protect enough him or his tower (don't remember exact words). Generally I dislike any thinker who speakes in the game like "you guys suck cause you don't protect my tower". My point is, don't flame other people even when they are really bad, instead, try to play better yourself to compensate the bad teammates. No one has to do the baby sitting for another teammate. Also I don't like the way teo_live talking. It sounds offensive to me, although he was not talking to me.

But the reason we lost that game was not only because of teo_live. It was also largely because the other team kicked their worst player, and we cannot kick teo_live. It means his k/d wasn't that bad.

To be fair, I think teo_live has some skills, at least better than some other players I've seen. And he didn't feed on purpose during the game, even at the late phase when we are going to lose. I dislike his way of talking, but also he didn't mass using the f*** words. (I've seen much worse flamers.)

So, from a bt player's perspective, I suggest the league admins to think about giving teo_live a second chance. Teo_live is not a good team player yet, and still need to realize how to actively participate into the game, but I think he still cares about the game and willing to learn. So maybe just ban him for a week or two, but not permanently.

[Teo_live]

Thank you olivercamel.

It was a really bad game for me yes I admit, and I did the wrong thing I flamed and blamed. Though at the end of the day I was not like purposely sabotage the team.

I talk offensively because it is the only way I can defend myself if anyone does it to me. This isn't the first time/game I have been flamed by those people (even if I go well, even if my K:D is better, they will still find something). I don't wanna name and shame the exact culprits but it is about 4-5 of them (and that's in my entire battletanks life). Regardless I should not have flamed and I learned my lesson.... I am resisting the urge to counter-flame stabi for his comments on me, hopefully that counts for something.

On a side note, yeah I really am trying to improve with tinker. I usually start my games with Exploder, so I am trying to substitute it for a tinker >.>

[Velocity2k]

Just for your information:
When we accept a ban it will last for at least one week (if the reason is valid).
So don't expect a ban to be deleted less than one week after it has been applied.

[Teo_live]

That's fine, I deserve it for letting my mouth rip. I just hope it aint permanent.

[Desktop_General]

I've played several games with Teo. He's a good addition to the league. Flaming is not typical of his behavior which is not the case of the average league player. Although I wasn't surprised someone requested he be banned (some snobby players are frustrated with his skill), I was surprised it was actually approved. I have even less skill than Teo, and some people are very nasty to me, so I understand how he feels when he says that to defend himself he flames people flaming him. I understand that wasn't the case this time, but I see him following the example more veteran players have set for him (which were bad examples and their behavior is obviously not supported by the admin since Teo was banned for doing as they did). In any case, Teo has apologized and promises not to flame people in the future. He also promises not to flame people that flame him (which seems safe based on past ban requests). I strongly support lifting his ban.

I have seen admin state that the league not elitist. That is the kind of league I want to be a member of. A group of people who enjoy battle tanks and play games with good sportsmanship. A couple of years ago, I was considered really good at battle tanks. Thanks to the league bots and the availability of games these days, many league players are HIGHLY skilled. Now I suck in comparison. That is good and bad. It's good because the map is being played A LOT, and many people are enjoying it. However, some of those highly skilled players aren't very accepting of new players. They expect people to be as good as them overnight. Many people had the same experience in DOTA and that's why many people hate DOTA. However, I enjoyed DOTA and kept playing anyway. Eventually I became good enough to carry my fair share of the weight in games. I would urge people to be more understanding. If you want the league to grow faster, be nicer to the new people. Also, if the ranked bot balances the teams, stop telling people to go to the qualify bot. And by the way kicking the worst player unbalances the game.

A lot of Saiyuki's work above seems to be criticizing the skill of Teo's performance, but as I understand it, you shouldn't be banned for playing poorly. So it shouldn't have been included. It seems like the only reason it was included is because Saiyuki looks down on Teo's skill and that is an extra motivation for him to ban Teo whereas he might overlook someone criticising his teammates' performances in other cases. That does not seem right to me. Giving someone advice is helpful. Pointing out they suck is not.

[Saiyuki]

"reasoning"

my criticism were based on the fact that teo told himself at the starting topic in here, that the other party started stating his play as "bad teamplay", whereas in truth he did so himself twice before the other teamplayers did so themselves. it may be the truth that i looked at the skill he was showing, e.g. staying tinker for more than 10min when an enemy got the siege pack and even when he could easily have swapped to another tank with around 3k gold, but for the current situation i considered this as bad teamplay, too.
main reasons for me approving had been the fact, that in the end he mainly focused on flaming as well as insulting, not playing at all every few seconds for up to two minutes.

thanks for the other reviews, i guess we'll go with the 1 week ban.

[PaPPa_D]

I was the 1 that requested a BAN on TEO_live...and NOT once did I talk of corrupt admins.

I dont KNOW any ADMINs, there for I cant get my Corrupt "friends" to Ban some1. Really dunno where TEO get this Idea from, read chatlog if any doubts.

I ban should only be for a periode of time, so that players learn the leason in the matter that got them banned.

Sad that I can only say, that it wont be the first OR last time some1 will request a ban on TEO.....but hope he proves me wrong and starts behavien in the league games.

Belive that this will close then post.

[Saiyuki]

be sure PaPPa_Dee, there will not be a second time for getting his ban removed.

*topic closed*