about team Heroes loses the game because of flaming

about team Heroes loses the game because of flaming - Printable Version

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about team Heroes loses the game because of flaming - olivercamel - 2012-02-27

Today we had the game B03, KCTZ vs. Heroes.

In this game, I had to pause and announce Heroes as the loser team, which is because of the flaming by thesalmon (red) of the Heroes team.

I am the referee of this game, and by BTT Rule 13.3, I am qualified to do so:
13.3. If an improper behavior happens, the referee should pause the game and warn the player. If it happens too much, the referee has the right to terminate the game and announce the team with the improper behavior player as the loser team.

To write this thread, I want to be open to all btt players/teams, because this is the first time that we have to terminate a game because of flaming.

I hope all teams who read this post give a bit more respects to the btt rule, to the work of the btt organizers/referees.

A little bit background first.

At the game time, team Heroes has only 3 players ready for the game. They asked if KCTZ allows to do the game on Monday, but KCTZ refused to change the game time.

As KCTZ wanted a game, I suggested to have a 3v3 game instead of 4v4. Both team agreed. This is why the game was in 3v3.

By following the BTT rules, team KCTZ could get a default win with 3 points easily. But they prefer a real game over a default win, even though with the risk to lose and have nothing at the end.

For this, I think team Heroes should be thankful at least.

Below I copied part of converstions in game to support my decision.

Notes: To view the full chat log, try to upload the game replay at this link, it is a good wc3 replay parser:
http://w3rep.sourceforge.net/example.php

Code:
(00:10 / All) FirePhoenix: gl hf

(00:12 / All) thesalmon: FIRS

(00:14 / All) thesalmon: FIRST

(00:24 / All) thesalmon: damn

(00:26 / All) RAF_Today_Hero: y gl & hf all

(00:26 / All) thesalmon: normal 3 guys

(00:28 / All) thesalmon: nnow solo

(00:32 / All) thesalmon: smart multibotw actually

(00:33 / All) olivercamel: red plz don't talk in public thx

(00:39 / All) thesalmon: kk

(00:44 / All) thesalmon: just excited

(00:52 / All) thesalmon: im like a dog

(00:58 / All) thesalmon: i have dog on my skype

(01:03 / Observers) olivercamel: plz stop it

(01:05 / All) FirePhoenix: ok please stop it

(01:05 / All) thesalmon: right phoenix?

(01:07 / All) thesalmon: u seen it

(01:08 / All) olivercamel: plz stop it

(01:12 / All) thesalmon: k

thesalmon (red) speaks almost since the beginning of the game. FirePhoenix and me both asked him not to.

Code:
(04:43 / Observers) FirePhoenix: 1st kill

(04:45 / All) thesalmon: SCOOOOOOOOOORE

(04:52 / All) olivercamel: i will pause

(04:54) The game has been paused by olivercamel.

(04:54 / All) UnifiedDoom: why?

(04:54 / All) Dirtyterror: why 

(04:54 / All) thesalmon: why

(04:54 / All) olivercamel: red, u got 1st offical warning

(04:54 / All) thesalmon: how many

(04:54 / All) RAF_Today_Hero: oliver angry / :)

(04:54 / All) olivercamel: if you keep talking in public

(04:54 / All) thesalmon: to get dq`?

(04:54 / All) olivercamel: next time we will terminate the game

(04:54 / All) thesalmon: how many warnings

(04:54 / All) thesalmon: kk

(04:54 / All) olivercamel: yes, i am mad already

(04:54 / All) olivercamel: not more

(04:54 / All) thesalmon: im so sorry

(04:54 / All) thesalmon: yes

(04:54 / All) thesalmon: i care very much

(04:54 / All) thesalmon: thank u

(04:54 / All) thesalmon: for this

(04:54 / All) thesalmon: unpause now

(04:54 / All) olivercamel: ok, we will resume now

For me, speaking "SCOOOOOOOORE" in public after you kill someone is offensive.
This is the first time I made the pause and gave the 1st official warning.

Code:
(11:04 / All) thesalmon: is phoenix referee?

(11:09 / All) FirePhoenix: -.-

(11:15 / All) thesalmon: i mean obviously but is he

(11:17 / All) thesalmon: like

(11:20 / All) thesalmon: deciding something

(11:27 / All) thesalmon: or just observing

(11:32 / All) thesalmon: xd

(11:33 / All) Dirtyterror: y if to loose game for you or not 

(11:34 / Observers) FirePhoenix: slowly i will be angry because of red

(11:44 / All) thesalmon: oneshot ulti time 4 tank.

(11:46 / Observers) olivercamel: i already am

(11:51 / Observers) olivercamel: i just don't want to ruin the game

This conversation more or less like a flame to the referee FirePhoenix.

Code:
(38:48 / All) thesalmon: OMG

(38:50 / All) thesalmon: OUR SKYPE

(38:52 / All) thesalmon: :DDD

(39:01 / All) UnifiedDoom: i hear nothing buy flaming and yellow here

(39:08 / All) UnifiedDoom: yelling

(39:15 / All) RAF_Today_Hero: ?

(39:19 / All) thesalmon: SO SORRY

(39:21 / All) RAF_Today_Hero: red speak as his mind ..

(39:24 / All) RAF_Today_Hero: man

(39:35 / Observers) FirePhoenix: 1st game when the public chat is spammed...

(39:48 / All) thesalmon: very nice teleport, sir

(39:51 / All) thesalmon: no raging here

Again, these public texts violate the btt rule.

Code:
(41:16 / All) thesalmon: they have a cp next to ours isn't that hax?

(41:23 / All) tained: lol

(41:24 / All) Dirtyterror: lol

(41:32 / All) thesalmon: dq oli dq!!!

(41:52 / Observers) olivercamel: i am almost 100% mad ^^

(42:07 / Observers) FirePhoenix: do u think i am 100% happy?-.-

(42:23 / Observers) FirePhoenix: we rly should make a default win

(42:43 / Observers) olivercamel: y, i will do this next time for team heros

And this parts with my name in it annoys me.

Code:
(66:28 / All) thesalmon: PINK

(66:29 / All) thesalmon: SO SNEAKY

(66:35 / All) thesalmon: like a snak

(66:37 / All) thesalmon: snake

(66:38 / All) thesalmon: sry

(66:56 / All) olivercamel: ok, i will pause again

(67:01) The game has been paused by olivercamel.

(67:01 / All) olivercamel: first of all, i am already 100% mad at red

(67:01 / All) olivercamel: i don't want to even speak to him

(67:01 / All) thesalmon: fyi

(67:01 / All) thesalmon: i said sorry

(67:01 / All) olivercamel: i wanted to run this game only for team kctz

(67:01 / All) thesalmon: on whisper

(67:01 / All) RAF_Today_Hero: man ..

(67:01 / All) thesalmon: grow the fuckup

(67:01 / All) thesalmon: chinaman

(67:01 / All) RAF_Today_Hero: so ?

(67:01 / All) olivercamel: so when unifieddoom says you have enough

(67:01 / All) olivercamel: we will give kctz the win

This is when i paused for the 2nd time.
Talking to pink "SO SNEAKY", "like a snak" are flames to me.

For me, all i want is to have a good btanks game. So I ignored the flame thesalmon said to me.
And i made my point that if KCTZ had enough with red's flame, i can terminate the game.
But if KCTZ wants to play, we will continue.

Code:
(67:01 / All) RAF_Today_Hero: we playing?

(67:01 / All) FirePhoenix: w8 a second

(67:01 / All) RAF_Today_Hero: okay

(67:01 / All) thesalmon: thefuck

(67:01 / All) thesalmon: oliver is 12?

(67:01 / Observers) UnifiedDoom: we can declare it over now i wouldn't mind

(67:01 / All) BatiGol9: anybody hear ?

(67:01 / All) FirePhoenix: can u pls shut ur fucking mouth red? im actually mad like oliver now

(67:01 / All) olivercamel: y, i hear

(67:01 / All) olivercamel: i am discussing with unifieddoom

Another flame to me, where FirePhoenix also got angry.

Code:
(67:01 / All) RAF_Today_Hero: what happen oliver ?

(67:01 / All) BatiGol9: ??????????????

(67:01 / All) thesalmon: ur referee

(67:01 / All) RAF_Today_Hero: so

(67:01 / All) UnifiedDoom: kctz will take the win if you let us

(67:01 / All) thesalmon: act a bit professional u shit

(67:01 / All) olivercamel: ok, let's do it in a professional way

(67:01 / All) olivercamel: just go to the end

(67:01 / All) olivercamel: and i will put it in the forum

(67:01 / All) UnifiedDoom: alright

(67:01 / All) UnifiedDoom: we'll play

(67:01 / All) RAF_Today_Hero: oliver?

(67:01 / All) UnifiedDoom: i want to forfiet my next game

(67:01 / All) UnifiedDoom: automatically though

(67:01 / All) tained: lol

(67:01 / All) thesalmon: thefuck

(67:01 / All) RAF_Today_Hero: lol

(67:01 / All) thesalmon: so if we win

(67:01 / All) thesalmon: what happens

(67:01 / All) thesalmon: if we tie

(67:01 / All) thesalmon: what happens

(67:01 / All) RAF_Today_Hero: i dont know ..

(67:01 / All) thesalmon: if we lose

(67:01 / All) olivercamel: ok we resume

(67:01 / All) thesalmon: what happens

(67:01 / All) olivercamel: 3

(67:01 / All) olivercamel: 2

(67:01 / All) RAF_Today_Hero: why?

(67:01 / All) olivercamel: 1

(67:01) The game has been resumed by FirePhoenix.

(67:01) The game has been paused by thesalmon.

(67:01 / All) RAF_Today_Hero: we won?

(67:01) The game has been resumed by UnifiedDoom.

(67:02 / All) thesalmon: the fuck is ur problem

(67:03 / All) thesalmon: answer

(67:05 / All) olivercamel: no we continue

(67:18 / Observers) FirePhoenix: i would

(67:33 / Observers) FirePhoenix: i wouldnt continue this game

(67:35 / Observers) FirePhoenix: if i would be u...

(67:36 / Observers) FirePhoenix: honestly

(67:44 / Observers) olivercamel: i know

(67:52 / Observers) olivercamel: then they would say i abuse the power

(68:00 / Observers) olivercamel: i will just let this game go to the end

(68:10 / Observers) olivercamel: and i will start a discussion thread in the forum

(68:22 / Observers) olivercamel: let people say if it is fair to give kctz 3 points

Even though KCTZ shows the willing to stop, I still don't want to terminate the game just because of the flame.
At the end i decided to continue.

Code:
(75:59 / All) thesalmon: Gg

(76:04 / Observers) FirePhoenix: 1h 30min wasting time for me :-/

(76:09 / All) thesalmon: oli too bad u made this unenjoyable trash

(76:22 / All) UnifiedDoom: eh it doesn't really matter you're just gonna lose to BTF next game lol

(76:23 / All) tained: lol

(76:24) The game has been paused by olivercamel.

(76:24 / All) olivercamel: ok

(76:24 / All) thesalmon: what u want

(76:24 / All) UnifiedDoom: and we're all gonna get eliminated

(76:24 / All) thesalmon: ok

(76:24 / All) FirePhoenix: yeah party...

(76:24 / All) thesalmon: now im rly mad

(76:24 / All) olivercamel: enough is enough

(76:24 / All) thesalmon: i have no dick

(76:24 / All) thesalmon: fuck myself in the face

(76:24 / All) UnifiedDoom: i forfiet

(76:24 / All) thesalmon: piece of shit

(76:24 / All) tained: lol

(76:24 / All) olivercamel: if you say this is unenjoyable

(76:24 / All) Dirtyterror: why you bitch them ?

(76:24 / All) olivercamel: there is no need to continue

(76:24 / All) RAF_Today_Hero: red speak .. alone

(76:24 / All) thesalmon: didnt say unplayable

(76:24 / All) thesalmon: now resume

(76:24 / All) Dirtyterror: so lets do nt 

(76:24 / All) thesalmon: and stfu

(76:24 / All) thesalmon: piece of shit

(76:24 / All) thesalmon: im professional dota player

(76:24 / All) RAF_Today_Hero: i cant?

(76:24 / All) thesalmon: if u know

(76:24 / All) Dirtyterror: hes kinda stupid lol ...

(76:24 / All) olivercamel: here by I announce team KCTZ wins

This is finally i think we have to stop.
If someone says "oli too bad u made this unenjoyable trash", we don't need to continue this "unenjoyable trash".

Sadly, according to the current BTT Rules, I cannot kick a team or a player out of the btt.
So team Heros will still have the 3rd game vs. team BTF.

RE: about team Heroes loses the game because of flaming - eSVau - 2012-02-27

Hmm second game and they dont even know how to follow rules.

First game vs us (DevTeam) they paused all the time even so it was said multiple times that they are not allowed to.

Well and what i read from thesalmon, no respect at all and less for oli who's doing quite a nice job for this tournament - that enough for me to satisfy a ban on velos bots (every of them) Tongue

RE: about team Heroes loses the game because of flaming - olivercamel - 2012-02-27

(2012-02-27, 01:12:15)eSVau Wrote: Well and what i read from thesalmon, no respect at all and less for oli who's doing quite a nice job for this tournament - that enough for me to satisfy a ban on velos bots (every of them)

Thanks eSVau. For me i don't mind to give an extra ban for thesalmon on the ranked league bot. It is not because he flamed me, but if he play in this way on league bot, he will for sure ruin games too, and other people will report him anyway.

But for the other 2 players from team Heroes, i.e. RAF_Today_Hero and Batigol9. I don't think they flamed in the game, and i don't think they deserve a ban on velo's bot.

RE: about team Heroes loses the game because of flaming - LIoOoOoIL - 2012-02-27

yea the behavior from thesaloman is kinda childish (already in our game)... at least his comment "im professional dota player" was a bit funny : P

RE: about team Heroes loses the game because of flaming - FirePhoenix - 2012-02-27

Like you said oliver, team Heroes should be really thankful that they have had a chance to play 3v3. But what we have of this? Fucking nothing! Just I wasted my time for this game. If oliver wouldn't be referee in this game with me, I would end this game already around 40min~. -.-

Especially thesalmon was respectless to me, oliver and to KCTZ. So Heroes made their opponent out of concentration for this game, which could have be a painful end for KCTZ if oliver wouldn't end this game (Heroes could win this game before 1h:30m).

RE: about team Heroes loses the game because of flaming - methadon - 2012-02-27

Isnt it possible to !mute him? Of course his behavior is children like , but if it should be possible to mute people unless they cant write anymore in public chat, than its not necessary to end game. or?

Dont see that as a critic point, its just another point of view.

greetz

RE: about team Heroes loses the game because of flaming - olivercamel - 2012-02-28

(2012-02-27, 15:36:04)FirePhoenix Wrote: Heroes could win this game before 1h:30m

This is hard to say, for me it seems more like a draw.
But anyway, team heroes lost the chance to play till 90min because of red flame.

(2012-02-27, 20:48:48)methadon Wrote: Isnt it possible to !mute him?

First I am not that good with the ghost bots. So when making the rules I forgot the command "!mute"

Second, the BTT rules doesn't force to use a ghost bot to host game. It means if both teams agree, maybe 1 player can host the game for other people. In this case, the "!mute" command won't be available.

But anyway this could be a good idea. If other people flame in the btt game (which i hope no more), the referee can do a "!mute".

RE: about team Heroes loses the game because of flaming - Prog - 2012-02-28

How will the default win influence the k/d ratio? Let's say kctz and devteam make a draw, then it would be unfair to count the k/d of both teams vs heroes. So k/d without the heroes games i guess?

RE: about team Heroes loses the game because of flaming - progg - 2012-02-28

Personally i admire your patience oliver. If i was the referee the game would end sooner;) much sooner;)

RE: about team Heroes loses the game because of flaming - olivercamel - 2012-02-28

(2012-02-28, 02:39:03)Prog Wrote: How will the default win influence the k/d ratio? Let's say kctz and devteam make a draw, then it would be unfair to count the k/d of both teams vs heroes. So k/d without the heroes games i guess?

A default win means a team gets the win without playing the game. In that case, the team will receive 3 points, but 0 kill and 0 death, because the game never happened.

In the KCTZ vs. Heroes case, KCTZ could've received a default win. But they gave up this right, because they wanted a real game. So the game started.

In the middle of the game, I had to terminate it because of the flame. Therefore to be accurate, it was a terminated game, but not a default win. In this case, the KCTZ will have team kills/deaths for that game until when it was terminated.

The k-d factor is calcuated over 3 games. This makes it less "random". Because you may play good in 1 game and kills a lot. But the team k-d in total of the 3 games will be more truely refect the skill of a team.

RE: about team Heroes loses the game because of flaming - progg - 2012-02-28

And what in that case with the rule that player must play at least in 2 won games to get the prize?

RE: about team Heroes loses the game because of flaming - RAF_Today_Hero - 2012-02-28

UnifiedDoom: i want to forfiet my next game ( because they lost the game )

RE: about team Heroes loses the game because of flaming - olivercamel - 2012-02-28

(2012-02-28, 14:11:10)progg Wrote: And what in that case with the rule that player must play at least in 2 won games to get the prize?

Well, the 3 KCTZ players were in that game, and their team won (though due to the flame of the other team). In this case, the 3 KCTZ players have contributed 1 win to the team. Those 3 people need 1 more win to be qualified for the winner prize.

If it is the default win, then it doesn't count, because you never played.

So to speak, if you played in a game, and your team wins at the end, (no matter how), it is considered a contribuition to the team for that win. And a player needs to have 2 wins like this to be qualified for the winner prize.

RE: about team Heroes loses the game because of flaming - LIoOoOoIL - 2012-02-28

(2012-02-28, 14:51:43)olivercamel Wrote:
(2012-02-28, 14:11:10)progg Wrote: And what in that case with the rule that player must play at least in 2 won games to get the prize?

Well, the 3 KCTZ players were in that game, and their team won (though due to the flame of the other team). In this case, the 3 KCTZ players have contributed 1 win to the team. Those 3 people need 1 more win to be qualified for the winner prize.

If it is the default win, then it doesn't count, because you never played.

So to speak, if you played in a game, and your team wins at the end, (no matter how), it is considered a contribuition to the team for that win. And a player needs to have 2 wins like this to be qualified for the winner prize.

worst case, all opponents of a team didnt showup (even in the final), nobody gets a winner prize? ; D
just count everywin like this(didnt showup etc.), for all members of such teams, its not their fault.

RE: about team Heroes loses the game because of flaming - olivercamel - 2012-02-28

(2012-02-28, 15:02:35)LIoOoOoIL Wrote: worst case, all opponents of a team didnt showup (even in the final), nobody gets a winner prize? ; D
just count everywin like this(didnt showup etc.), for all members of such teams, its not their fault.

The BTT tournament is made to present good team playing games, not only for the win.

Also, because the semi-final and final will be BO3, if a team goes to the top, they should already have 4 wins (if all game happens). And i don't even mention the 1/4 final game + 3 group games.

So to speak, for the 1st team members, it is really not difficult to play and contribute at least 2 wins for the team.

looool, in your worst case example, if a team ends up in 1st and all by default win to get there, it means the tournament is so fail that we shouldn't make it at all. In this case, would you be happy to recieve such a "prize" from a fail tournament? It would be a shame for me.

Anyway, the rule "at least 2 wins for the team to receive the prize" is defined to prevent the 5th player don't play, but the other 4 players too strong.

For example, if a poor skilled player like saltwater doesn't play for all games, but because his other 4 teammates like fire, althend etc. are too strong, and salt's team gets to the 1st at the end. In this case, it won't be fair to give salt the winner prize.

(it is just a joking example salt, and you know we like you xD)

RE: about team Heroes loses the game because of flaming - LIoOoOoIL - 2012-02-28

well ok.. there are enough games to climp the #1(and get every member played some games), even with some defaultwin-games. (it was just a worst case)
i even wouldnt take the prize at all...

aah oli, u should make this example with cro.(!) ; D

RE: about team Heroes loses the game because of flaming - Althend - 2012-02-28

I vote that u remove btt prices and use it to finance bt for sc2 Big Grin

RE: about team Heroes loses the game because of flaming - olivercamel - 2012-02-28

Well, the btt2012 winner prize will be given anyway. There is nothing wrong to receive the prize if you got 1st rank.

If you really don't want the money, you may consider to donate to the BT mapper, to financial support BT league bot etc. For BT SC2 version I don't mind too, but I really doubt if anyone is still working on that.

RE: about team Heroes loses the game because of flaming - LIoOoOoIL - 2012-02-28

maybe it would stop the bt-sc2-mappers from disappearing Huh

RE: about team Heroes loses the game because of flaming - BatiGol9 - 2012-02-28

can u answer ?

why referee wait until 1:16 to terminate the game ??? Flaming started in first 4 min and Referee can terminate the game in first 10 min ??

why he wait until we very close to win ????

in 1:16 we have Inf + Earth + Hunter and we get all controls + we have facetory near enemy base !!! Cool