Dream Team Semi final

[Althend]

Let's close this topic. The only result itcreates is to humiliate clan toaf. Some of them don't deserve to be taken inside this unreasonable request.
I think that you should be happy being number 3. (and more thant that happy to play in this competition)

Gen, you can always play priv outside btt :o
I think everyone would enjoy it :p






(I am fan of korean team lol)

[AGGInator]

the only simple fact i see is that dream team isn't able to loose (in mind)

[olivercamel]

I think Althend's point is right. So I removed the voting post and some other messages I made.

Once again I apologize for GEN and all other Dream Team members about some of the words I said. I didn't really mean it. But I did get a bit upset after reading your message (for the whole day).

Maybe you think you have solid reasons to request a rmk, but I don't think those reasons are logical and reasonable. It feels for me, also like Gummy said before, more like your team always wants to take max possible of benefits, but refuse to follow or ignore the BTT rules when it is not perfect for you, which have no problem for the other teams.

I know the BTT is not organized perfectly. But consider the limited resources we have (people/time/bot), we already tried the best we can do. We even made some extra rules for the non-EU teams, like the latency settings, like the game time is scheduled firstly based on the non-EU team's preferable etc.

The BTT is hosted to let more people enjoy the game, from a higher competition level. You have nothing to lose from BTT, but you are supposed to receive fun, both from the games, and from your team that playing with friends together.

I have spent like more than half of free time for the BTT during the last 2.5 month. Starting by pushing the idea, making draft of the BTT rules, collecting teams/referees, scheduling game time, communicating 15 teams, sitting the whole weekend to make sure the game is happening (ofc thx to inde, gummy, ortho and all other people who helped).

I tried a lot to compromise (game time, rules etc.), just want to make sure everyone play some games happily. And it works for many teams, like BeerTanks, who is almost the first one out, but I like that team. Also like BTC and Besh etc. But for your team, I just feel it is a bit hard to satisfy.

The discussion is still open, if you can provide reasons supporting yourself to do a rmk, which accepts by other people. We will consider to do it.

[AGGInator]

wow
thx god i red it 5 mins before it was removed by you
changed my opinion in some cases and i'm happy 'bout you've done it. thx oli.

[GEN_Schwarzkopf]

Seriously Rob, a reschedule would not make a difference. We, Old Sluts, just wanna finish the tournament now and another delay of 1 week would make it even more boring for us.
Essi

Clearly preventing your boredom after having a 4th Round bye is far more important than being fair and courteous.

I encourage you to look up the meaning of "narcissist".

[GEN_Schwarzkopf]

Calling something "a moral hazard", or "outrageous" does sound offensive to me and probably many other non-native speakers (Edit: keep in mind that words might have different connotations with different native languages). You say that BuG and BTT organizers have no sense for morals - how can that be not offensive?

Also claiming that a team didn't want to change schedule because they want an "easy win" is offensive (it's basically to claim they play unfair and they act unmorally).


There were obviously things which could have been done better, but statements like those do not belong in any reasonable discussion.

Prog, I think you're misinterpreting tone here. This is calm discussion.

[GEN_Schwarzkopf]

Conclusion- We cant make everyone happy becouse there are teams from around the world while some get up early to play other go to bed late to play sorry but we are just human beings and just cant control time and space and bend it to our will.

There were only 3 games left in the tournament.

You can allow a reschedule. It's that simple.

[GEN_Schwarzkopf]

Post removed.

I've removed my response.

[GEN_Schwarzkopf]

Its really cool to see a complaining team wanting more rematches after they got one, plus the fact that some of the other teams didn't even get any rematches. This argument should be over, they lost, get over it.

Another misinformed post. Next-Gen is the team that got a rematch vs Dream Team due to a double d/c, and we were happy to give it to them.

According to Redemption11's logic everyone should be equally miserable to eachother.

TKF please remove Redemption11's post, as it is a defamatory nuissance post.

- Rob

[skpopey]

Sort it out with oli,im disgussed by this thread anyway.
P.S.I deleted my posts hope that makes you happy.

[BENNIE.FM]

FGDFGDF

[skpopey]

i need to say 1 more thing.Sorry for not making clear the meaning behind the skill difference.I sincerely apologize for my misleading comment its my fault for not explaining the reasons behind it again sorry dream team didnt mean to offend you in that way.
I want to say that by skill difference i didnt many any play that is being affected by lag/delay, I meant the response to your enemys movements,the teamwork and the communication.
Sorry if you miseunderstood that as a comment on your tank control or farming skills again its my fault for not explaining i didnt mean that at all.Nobody can blame you if your moves are little off becouse you really have delay and lags and thats the fact.
Again sorry its my fault for making such a two sided comment without explaining it.

[LIoOoOoIL]

TKF please remove skpopey's posts from this thread.

TKF please remove Redemption11's post, as it is a defamatory nuissance post.

j

and this should be gentelmenlike or friendly?

[GEN_Schwarzkopf]

The posts that that have derogatory, defamatory and misleading information needed to be removed. I'm still being approached by people who have the facts completely wrong.

This is a thread about scheduling the semi-final game, not my personal skill. To make it such a thing is an ad hominem attack and has nothing to do with scheduling or the right to reschedule due to time conflicts on a 3-game weekend.

- Rob

[GEN_Schwarzkopf]

...I removed the voting post and some other messages I made.
Once again I apologize for GEN and all other Dream Team members about some of the words I said. I didn't really mean it.
-----------------------------
The discussion is still open, if you can provide reasons supporting yourself to do a rmk, which accepts by other people. We will consider to do it.

I appreciate that Oli.

Best regards,

- Rob

[scron2]

This is amusing.

One team requests a rematch due to extraordinary circumstances:
GEN: We had to play 3 games and they wouldn't even wait a few hours at that for our "missing player"... also refused to play next week.

Then essexeri goes and says "its an advantage to play more games in a weekend for better practice"
AND "we got bored of waiting",
AND "we would easily win against dream team".

So something here does not add up. For one they say they got bored. Next they wouldn't wait for our 5th player not even for like 2 hours.
If they could easily win, then what is the injustice in honoring the rematch?

I suggest essexeri here eats his own words, rematches toaf next week, so he gets to have his "advantageous extra practice" at the same time so he's less bored because
it's obvious one tourney game isn't enough for these guys.

So what if the tournament was poorly scheduled. That isn't the issue here. The issue here is with a team being a bunch of dicks by being uncooperative, inconsiderate and unsportsmanlike. The rules dictate that if they need to reschedule that if both teams agree then that's fair as far as I understand. The issue isn't necessarily with the scheduling itself here but as tournament coordinators I think you take it under assumption that teams will be honorable and sportsmanlike should any "considerably significant" issues arise. The problem here is that under extenuating circumstances the rules were not adapted even somewhat.

But whatever, do as you like this tournament is yours after all. What makes you look bad is essexeri here coming and saying "playing more is an advantage", "we would easily beat you" and such while you sit back and watch the guy talk out of his ass because they refused to reschedule for an ""easy win"".

Last note is the "you-too" fallacious argument posted by them when they claimed their team wasn't at its best. That is an invalid form of argument and should NOT be tolerated. The reason it is baseless is that they readily offered 0 reasons why, again they were being fucking dicks. Why does the tournament allow for such actions to take place when everyone can see right through all their bullshit.

EITHER WAY, essexeri if you have to play 2 games in one weekend, one being a rematch it isn't slowing the progress of the tournament. As you have said that is an advantage and you excuse rematching it as a waste of your time but at the same time it will still be the same length of time anyway. If being a good sport is a waste of your time then who the fuck are you to say you can't play another game in a weekend when toaf played 3? The last being you guys of course. What you say about waiting around & playing a video game compared to playing soccer is PURELY SUBJECTIVE, just another example of someone talking right out of their ass. You can't prove it but you say it on a whim like you're fucking god and know everything.

Seriously if the tournament coordinators don't seriously see essexeri's post as enough evidence to force a rematch then I see them as not upholding good sportsmanship in lieu of catering to assholes. Remember, you do have the last say and can correct this wrong. This is how it comes back to you and yes you should consider essexeri's first post VERY SERIOUSLY.

And his 2nd post: "stop acting childish" ==> how about refusing to remake causing this whole problem to begin with? You seriously had no good reason to NOT reschedule because you were too busy not giving a shit that toaf was playing game 3 of the weekend. Refusing a remake is childish and coming in here and talking the way you did essexeri just proves it.

I don't expect essexeri to ever offer a rematch.
1) He's unsportsmanlike
2) He's childish --> typical match ducking remarks:
"it would be so easy that it would be a waste of time"
"playing many games in a weekend isn't a problem"
"playing more games in a weekend is better for a team" <--- (you aren't the team who did it, how the fuck do you know?)
"it would delay the tournament by a week" <--- (once again toaf rescheduled for the following week, a rematch is not a factor of this tournament's guideline)
3) All of the above quotes basically describe that it wouldn't be a waste of their time because if you refuse to reschedule you allow them to contradict themselves over and over. Basically you give the game to the big fat liar.

[BENNIE.FM]

FGDFGDF

hey guys a few people email me asking what does this mean even online people ask so fgdg or watever is means there is to much bullshit in this thread i will not even start to comment on what i think should be done should leave it up to team leaders refs everyone else should be on mute ^^

[skpopey]

scron you just wrote a novel about "why essi is an asshole" .This is very "reasonable" i see and "sportsmanlike".I see a potential of a great writer in you .That aside.Just stay silent and let gen negotiate with oli,no reason to continue the querell with both teams.Like bennie said this is not public discussion by the looks of it.Let the teamleaders and oli sort it out.If you want to tell someone something try to pm them 8) .

[olivercamel]

One team requests a rematch due to extraordinary circumstances:
GEN: We had to play 3 games and they wouldn't even wait a few hours at that for our "missing player"... also refused to play next week.

You missed some parts in your statement.

3 games in 24 hours is not an extraordinary circumstances for me.

Even if it is, this circumstance is largely caused by the Dream Team itself, because:
(1) they had 2 dcs in the previous round, so 1 game had to be delayed to this week. This is why they had 3 games instead of 2.
(2) they didn't complain about at all "3 games are too much" before the weekend as normally they should do. So I assume they are ok with it. Otherwise I should've already adjusted the game time.

The truth is, Dream Team didn't mention anything about "3 games are too much" until they won 2 games and the 3rd game is almost ready to go.
All 5 players from Old Sluts and 2 referees are waiting there for this game.
Even if the request from the Dream Team is 100% reasonable, the way they requests it is more like "i want to do it, so this has to be done right now" regardless the other people's feeling. And if the other people refuse to do so, they become "uncooperative".


It is easy for you to say "wait a few hours", but please be aware that it costs time from 5 players + 2 referees. And the supposed game starting time was 9pm in the evening in EU.

Then maybe you can say "why not just do it next weekend", in that case, the 7 people who went there waiting for game as scheduled were just for nothing.

And about the "missing player", as I said before, if you really care about BTT, make time for it. I know some people who absent from work just for BTT game, I also know Gummy/me had to stay up in 3am/4am for refereeing game of your team.

The rules dictate that if they need to reschedule
that if both teams agree then that's fair as far as I understand.

Btw, your understand is wrong to the rules. The BTT rule 8.4 says "The players must come to the game sharply on time. The team which has less than 5 players at the scheduled game time loses the game. If both teams have less than 5 players, the team with fewer players or with the last joined player loses the game."

But in fact, we referees always choose to be blind in case both of the teams agree to do something, because we wanted to avoid the complaining about the rules and make the BTT more smoothly executed. But in case of 2 teams disagree each other, the rules shall apply.



So I don't understand why you guys blame EssiXr3i in that way, because he was just following the rules, and it is nothing wrong to follow the rules.

You can blame the rules are not perfect instead, which I agree. But the rules are the same for all teams, not only for Dream Team. And most of the other teams never complained about the rules.


According to the rules, we have NO rights to force EssiXr3i to do the rmk. If we modify the rules for it, there are many other games have to rmk also. And that as BTT organizers we cannot afford.

The rmk can only happen in case of both Dream Team and Old Sluts agree to do it.


Deep in heart, I hope Essi agree to rmk. Because this cost 1-2 hours more for a game, but saves a lot time for me and other BTT staff here to do discussions. If Essi has troubles to find 5 players, I offer myself to play under his team (I have the feeling Gummy would like to do it too). I even hope the rmk game can happen on a US host, such that there won't be another discussion about "the lose is because high delay".

If you want to say "if oli play it is against BTT rules", I suggest that you to save your time to ever think about it. Because the whole discussion in this thread is against the BTT rules. Because according to BTT rules, Dream Team was even not qualifed to get an entry to BTT.

[LIoOoOoIL]

WORD, BÄM IN YOUR FACE! (joke...)

well, this are the points from oli which not taken into account from "Dream Team" in their argumentation, but are totally importent for their request.

Its time to come to the point and make a "clear" decision.