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Hi Exodus, thank you very much for your post, that's the way I like getting conversation with the devs!!
I'd also like to see your calculations by the way.
Also, I agree with unpredictable_m that you should release a new version of the map as soon as possible, since there are some serious issues currently i.e. poison magic showing false upgrade price (which I still don't know if you really get the 1850 upgrade by paying 1200), deflective armor and issues with raider.
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btw.in the new version u cant see the stats list(in the right corner) when u are spectator.
Wer aufhört, besser zu werden, hat aufgehört, gut zu sein.
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(2012-07-03, 20:25:53)UnifiedDoom Wrote: (2012-07-03, 19:52:15)RaptorXI Wrote: About Burst: I don't get why the upgrade is so expensive and only use the basic version (all weapons it's good against do much much damage > 100).
The purpose of the upgrade is to specifically counter high damage nuking spells, demon stun, heavy stun, goblin hammer, etc.
Yes i knew that already, but the upgrade is no big improvement: blocking a basic magic and then get the full damage of the weapon/skill u actually wanna block...
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@unpredictable_m: I didn't answer, because Raptor got it right. The damage of every single damage instance gets reduced. Also, the calculation of option b) is right. There is no reduction through the tank armor (the armor only reduced creep and tower damage, but not weapons or skills), only magic resistance reduces weapon and skill damage.
@Raptor: Like it has been said, it's been designed to not only work against weapons, but also skills (also Mines and Explosives, altough a bug currently prevents blocking damage from Mines). Because of that, the minimum trigger damage increases from 100 to 500 with the upgrade. This means, you'll have to take at least 500 damage for the Burst Armor to block. Not many weapons deal that much damage with a single hit (as you can see in the attachment).
@ssl: If I had the time to release such a version, I'd also have the time to actually fix everything ;)
Also, here is the spreadsheet I created to see how each armor actually blocks the weapons. I'm pretty sure the formulas are correct, but you can verify them, if you want.
weapon data.zip (Size: 280.93 KB / Downloads: 261)
(note: it's only one file, but different formats. It has been created as a .xlsx file, so this one should work best)
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Actually there's another problem with deflective armor. Ever since 8.75 was released, I had been lagging exceptionally badly during all teamfights with infernals and sky forts. This lag was so bad to the point at which I could not move, only click on the enemy and hope to win the fight. I figured it was just because my computer was out of date. However I've noticed that many other people have also been complaining about lag during the fights in this phase of the game. I think deflective armor is actually the cause simply because it has the game make so many calculations so quickly, though I don't have any concrete proof. I for one vote that it should be removed from the game, not on the basis of being overpowered but on the basis that in the lategame it causes lag to the point at which the game becomes unplayable.
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Yeah, I already mentioned this problem. And as I said, there is a way to improve the situation. Only when this improvement fails, I'm considering a removal.
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Disagree, it just proves that you shouldn't go 4 poisons anymore now.
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(2012-07-16, 05:56:56)dfhjfd Wrote: Disagree, it just proves that you shouldn't go 4 poisons anymore now.
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gee now smart people just go 4 flamers instead... what an improvement! (not  )
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(2012-07-16, 05:56:56)dfhjfd Wrote: it just proves that you shouldn't go 4 poisons anymore now.
This just proves you didn't get the problem here.
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(2012-07-16, 19:10:52)UnifiedDoom Wrote: (2012-07-16, 05:56:56)dfhjfd Wrote: Disagree, it just proves that you shouldn't go 4 poisons anymore now.
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gee now smart people just go 4 flamers instead... what an improvement! (not )
which makes people go less deflective armors, which enables the poison again. Doesn't sound too bad to me.
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that item makes poison/flamer/laser and some other weapons unnecessary !!!
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(2012-07-16, 20:04:40)Prog Wrote: which makes people go less deflective armors, which enables the poison again. Doesn't sound too bad to me.
Theres still no reason NOT to get flamer over poison. Minor creeping improvement with a HUGE weakness to deflective armor definitely isn't a good trade-off.
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Better damage per gold with poison magic is no reason?
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2012-07-17, 02:33:20
(This post was last modified: 2012-07-17, 02:37:39 by RaptorXI.)
It's not only the weapons that are common for common short range but also: Bonfire, Starshooter, Machine Gun...
In general i would like a higher cooldown for higher range weapons at these classes against damage absorption.
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2012-07-17, 21:37:22
(This post was last modified: 2012-07-17, 21:41:49 by ICE2607.)
well, the trigger is set right now to 500 isnt it.
does taht mean that deflective armor is useless right now ?
beause there are not alot weapons that deal so much dmg.
i just ask because of u ll need armor lvl4 until u can buy deflective armor.
after 20 mins u normally have more hp so u dont care anymore about mines
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And by Deflective Armor you mean ... Burst Armor? You also have to consider tank skills for that. Burst Armor is mainly meant to block those and the heavy-hitter weapons. Also, if you feel the skills of the current tanks don't deal that much damage to just block only those, you don't have to upgrade the Burst Armor just yet.
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yes burst armor, my fault. u need lvl 4 for that. if u have 4k hp u dont need burst anymore.
how much dmg block the upgrade, just btw ? 
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Well, the block is intended to be unlimited. But because of technical reasons, the armor can only block damage that is lower than your max HP (because the damage then outright kills you, before the block can take effect). So you could say that the upgraded Burst Armor blocks damage up to your maximum hitpoints.
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2012-07-18, 18:24:18
(This post was last modified: 2012-07-18, 18:31:21 by Teo_live.)
I still don't see much reason to choose burst armor instead of deflective or an additional hull...
Can the burst armor damage threshold be lowered from 500 to 477, so it can block unupgraded torpedos. As well making burst armor block all damages for 0.2 seconds rather than just one instance of damage, this gives huge incentive to buy the item instead of boring old deflective/hull.
You said you will add deflective armor to mass converter, can you allow a burst armor version of this also?
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2012-07-30, 01:04:21
(This post was last modified: 2012-07-30, 01:10:02 by Crag_Hack.)
i think the deflection was ok b4, now not much will use them, bc there are to much guns, where deflect are useless and on the other guns it is too weak. for example instead of poisen, flammer, laser, machinegun,... the people could just save for guns like blaster, doom magic, light fantastic, unupgraded hammer, unupgraded infernal rock, or they can go axe (flak), and most games not all players of a team has deflection,so there are enough enemies to fight, i think the deflection promotes the ppl to buy different guns like a kombination of doom and poisen, bc poisen still good against creeps and buildings, so they are not shit still the enemies had deflect, there is another point too like raptor says u need one slot to use it, i think its not compared to cost althrough now, and in early game like after the first 10 min u cant use the full power of deflect which was good if u played in mid against 3 enemies with guns like basics, plasma guns, and all the other cheap guns with >1 to 1.5 sec cd
ps: it find the new burst is good, bc if u have low hp for exampe with heli u can prevent for death by skills like a rocket from ht or stun from demon and so on (ofc u need some hp but a iron hull would be enough), the thing is u just need the skill to use the burst right, so if u can stay in range to u enemy (and therefor u dont need 1300 range mostly 1050 range are enough) u can be fighting without losing much hp, so right used it could be better then a steal hull
but maybe it could have reduced min dmg trigger to 444 (upgraded form ofc) so it will prevent confuse magic, lightning magic, tornado magic too, but then it will be worse against skills and maybe loose his funktion
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