Beta League

[AGGInator]

But i think the players shouldnt be sorted by total leaves -> elo, but by left games % -> total leaves.

+1

1st bot: all above 80% stay can join..
2nd bot: all above 50% to 79% stay..
and so on (but who can join 1st can join 2nd.. 3rd.. and so on too)

muhaha^^

[RaptorXI]

The massive leaving and kicking is really a problem, there are hardly good liga games. A possibilty for the top players to play against each other would be nice (I myself would wait longer to have one good game instead of two bad).

[BENNIE.FM]

hrmm this intresting 6 people drop in the first 10 seconds and it counts as a game its a joke^^ you seriously say it can be a game cause thats what it says on win loss games like this should be deleted how do you expect someone to play 5vs1 after 10 seconds

[Velocity2k]

It's still a BETA league. If there is such a problem an league admin may delete the game.
But it's also obvious we can't automatically "abort" games: Imagine the game starts, two friends are not in the same team and they leave in the first 10 seconds because they are not in the same team. They would just join games until they are in the same team. And i'm quite sure there is more room for abuse when we automatically "abort" games.

[BENNIE.FM]

my bad just seems the last 10-15 post are about beta league ^^

[Tom-Ace]

My fear is that boosters will join a league bot with some friends and the boosters friends will all have junk accounts so if they get put on the other team they will just leave or sabotage the other team, i have already seen this in league beta.

[eSVau]

My fear is that boosters will join a league bot with some friends and the boosters friends will all have junk accounts so if they get put on the other team they will just leave or sabotage the other team, i have already seen this in league beta.

That's a problem of humankindhock:

[Prog]

The only thing we can do against such abuses is people pointing them out to the league admins (with replays) which can delete games/playerstats.

[Velocity2k]

My fear is that boosters will join a league bot with some friends and the boosters friends will all have junk accounts so if they get put on the other team they will just leave or sabotage the other team, i have already seen this in league beta.

That's why i want to allow only players who have played at least x games with y% average stay to join the ranked games. This way it takes some time to create a "fake" account.

[Tom-Ace]

My fear is that boosters will join a league bot with some friends and the boosters friends will all have junk accounts so if they get put on the other team they will just leave or sabotage the other team, i have already seen this in league beta.

That's why i want to allow only players who have played at least x games with y% average stay to join the ranked games. This way it takes some time to create a "fake" account.

That indeed does sound like a good idea that would work, however the x games played and y% will have to be high maybe 10 games played with 80% stay?

[olivercamel]

Tonight i lost 2 noob liga games. Those were all like me play vs 4. I am sure other good players also experienced the same. My teammates were either left or feed the whole game. If this keep happening i will lose the interest to play the liga anymore.

We should take some actions to the leavers and feeders. But i don't think we need to spend time on calculating "X games % rate stay for entry". I think it will just help to have several levels (maybe 3 levels) liga bots. The bottom level bot is free for everyone. The mid level bot is only for top 3000 players, and the highest level is for top 1000 players etc. (the rank of each bot is needed to enter has to be considered carefully, depends on how many players in total we have, i think the database server should have statistics).

If a ppl is leaving too much or not good enough, they cannot join higher level bots for liga. So for the people play in the higher level bots, they can enjoy the game. It also easier to make intern-like pro games in the high level bots. Also, It can help to prevent the Tom-Ace said faking states, because if some friends leaving the game for helping the others to win, at the same time they will lose points. And eventually they will lose the entry to higher level bots.


Another thing, i would suggest to disable "-kick" command completely in liga games. I think for some beginners it is quite disappointing to be kicked by mates in his first try in btank. And, due to the liga bot is trying to balance the teams, what i saw sometimes is like: in the first 10 minutes, both teams kick all noob players. And play like 2v3 or 3v4. If the game is not playing with 5v5, how can the random balancing working properly?

[RaptorXI]

more shit games:
#35656 (70 s!)
#25702
#35811

[AGGInator]

leave = ban for about 30 or more mins?^^ (in order to prevent constantly leaves of typical leavers)

[Althend]

Tonight i lost 2 noob liga games. Those were all like me play vs 4. I am sure other good players also experienced the same. My teammates were either left or feed the whole game. If this keep happening i will lose the interest to play the liga anymore.

We should take some actions to the leavers and feeders. But i don't think we need to spend time on calculating "X games % rate stay for entry". I think it will just help to have several levels (maybe 3 levels) liga bots. The bottom level bot is free for everyone. The mid level bot is only for top 3000 players, and the highest level is for top 1000 players etc. (the rank of each bot is needed to enter has to be considered carefully, depends on how many players in total we have, i think the database server should have statistics).

If a ppl is leaving too much or not good enough, they cannot join higher level bots for liga. So for the people play in the higher level bots, they can enjoy the game. It also easier to make intern-like pro games in the high level bots. Also, It can help to prevent the Tom-Ace said faking states, because if some friends leaving the game for helping the others to win, at the same time they will lose points. And eventually they will lose the entry to higher level bots.


Another thing, i would suggest to disable "-kick" command completely in liga games. I think for some beginners it is quite disappointing to be kicked by mates in his first try in btank. And, due to the liga bot is trying to balance the teams, what i saw sometimes is like: in the first 10 minutes, both teams kick all noob players. And play like 2v3 or 3v4. If the game is not playing with 5v5, how can the random balancing working properly?

I totally see what you mean. I lost once that way, me alone vs 5(+feeding teamamtes). My ratio was something like 8:1 but could not win.
Maybe make the score more important so the losing penality would not be too high in that kind of case.

Concerning the autbalance, how does it work? If you have high rank, does it mean you will get all noob./feeders in your team? ^_6

The "solo vs All enemies +feeders" seems to happen more and more :p


I suggest a new commad -cancel that would cancel the league game.
All players ingame would have to type it to cancel the match. ^_^

[Velocity2k]

If this keep happening i will lose the interest to play the liga anymore.

You lose interest in something not yet finished and not even started? Very interesting.

I've disabled the links to the BETA stats because people always tend to forget about the beta status and think it's already final...

[olivercamel]

If this keep happening i will lose the interest to play the liga anymore.

You lose interest in something not yet finished and not even started? Very interesting.

It is appearently just an expression ...

My real points are:

(1) We need to do something against leaver/feeder who can ruin a good bt game. My suggestions is to have differently levels of liga bots, which only good players can join. (I think counting only the players points is enough, but it is ok if you want to calculate X games % stay etc.)

(2) I think it needs to reconsider the pointing system. For now, if you lose game, you lose points anyway no matter how good you play. I think maybe real outstading players can earn some points even they lose a game. Because sometimes you can really do nothing to stop your team from losing.

(3) I suggest to disable "-kick" command in liga, or reconsider about the auto balancing. Because the auto balancing algorithm (i guess) is based on 10 players. If both teams kick some players in the early game, the team is not balanced anymore. (Although without -kick you cannot do anything to feeder/home bomber in own team, if we implement (1), those players will not appear (at least not too often) in the higher level liga bots.

(4) i don't like altend's -cancel idea. ^_^

[Prog]

You need to think of the games feeling like 1v5 differently. Every good player will have those and winning more of those games equals better stats/more points/higher rank/probably higher skill. Playing those games is the real challange in current league which differs good from great players.

@olivercamel: Your (2) is bad as it encourages to steal kills/towers/creeps/etc - we don't want to emphasize bad play to get more points. I agree with (1), I wrote similar suggestions everywhere a couple of months ago, but it's just a beta and that will have to be implemented when the basic webstuff is completed. (3) We are allready discussing this. Disabling -kick in league has benifits, but the drawback that we will need a couple more league admins to remove games in which players fed on purpose. Nevertheless i agree on this point.

[DerSatan]

[1]: Yea, thats a good point, and Velo already said that its the plan to do so.

[2]: Unnecessary. As this happens to all league participating players, theres no imbalance that should be fixed. Additionally, this would really corrupt the overall ingame atmosphere. Killstealing, flaming about killstealing, super defensive play, etc..

[3]: 100% my opinion. The only thing that should be allowed is to kick afk people, and afk is the kickreason the map can detect the easiest. It can even autokick players that are afk a certain time.

[4]: I cant imagine a situation in which every single guy wants to cancel the league game. Wasted code.

[Althend]

Concerning the cancel.

It is about fairpay. Imagine you play a really great match and suddenly 3 players get dropped. Maybe even if you win, you want the losing team (with 2 players) to not be penalised ^_^

I agree concerning the ks and others stuff but it does not change anything. The player can ks everywhere but finally he would end to feed alone vs all.
I mean that the compensation (the reduction of the number of points losed) would work only if the player doesn't leave.

You need to think of the games feeling like 1v5 differently. Every good player will have those and winning more of those games equals better stats/more points/higher rank/probably higher skill. Playing those games is the real challange in current league which differs good from great players.

+1 but I am wondering how far it would come. I understand Oliver when he says it is some times boring.



I would suggest also another command:

-praise x

Where x is the number of the player.
This command would be available at the end of the game. You would grant it to an outstanding player. Someway it would gives +1 to the popularity of this player. (it would a fun stat,don't you? )

[eSVau]

Concerning the autbalance, how does it work? If you have high rank, does it mean you will get all noob./feeders in your team? ^_6

Balance: all is based on players ELO rating - the best and worst rating will be added to one team, the second best und the second worst to the other. The remaining six player will be distributed that way both teams have the smallest difference on their ELO sum.

(2) I think it needs to reconsider the pointing system. For now, if you lose game, you lose points anyway no matter how good you play. I think maybe real outstading players can earn some points even they lose a game. Because sometimes you can really do nothing to stop your team from losing.

Not exactly true, game stats do have impact on scoring but actually it is a slight impact. Increasing that impact would increase ego/unsocial gameplay.
Since i changed an important part of someone next ELO calculation i may play around with those setting to increase stats impact how it was before i increased ELO impact

I'm not fully satisfied with current calculation parameters, but dont get me wrong: stats impact is meant to be minor :mrgreen: