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Perhaps this issue has already been addressed and if so, feel free to direct me towards it:
This is a post directed at understanding fundamental calculations which have not been explained. Bounty for example, has a formula someone posted and so it no longer needs to be in this category, however some issues still do:
(1.) What is the range for the demolisher's hurl attack? ('q')
(2.) How do magic weapons effect heavy armor? If you care to start calculating the cost benefit ratio of the weapons, you quickly learn that normal damage weapons have far better ratios but that heavy armor (which all tanks have) takes some unspecificed amount of extra damage from magic attacks. How does this calculation work?
(3.) How does income work with control points? How often does the team armor upgrade?
[speculation]
(4.) Doesn't the passive armor ability on heavy tanks seem OP in certain situations?
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[2] armor isnt affecting magical damage (every weapon and tank ability). it only reduces damage from creeps, towers etc. this includes heavy tank's armor skill.
[3]there is a system which regulates income/CP controlling, but i dont know how exactly it works at the moment. its a little bit under construction anyways. the force upgrades armor and weapons every 5 minutes in the game, except you have reached level 30.
[4] what is OP?
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1. You can find the information in the Tanks and Items forum, its 2000.
2. Weapons and abilities are dealing exactly the damage which is stated in their tooltips, just creeps with magical attacks are affected by this and they are dealing twice the normal damage.
3. Control Points don't influence your income. But your force receives a loss compensation for every creep which wasn't spawned by the enemy (because you can not get the bounty for them anymore). There has been a bug there up until now, so the compensation wasn't always correct. It has been fixed now, which results in a larger influence of the CPs on the force's gold.
Your force always researches one attack and one armor upgrade every 5 minutes.
4. What do you mean with OP? ^^ Overpowerd? Its true thats its strong vs low damage and fast attacks (aka: Laser Towers), but its meant to be this way, since the ability becomes less effective the higher the damage of one attack is, like the one from Rocket Towers.
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4- To phrase it better, the Heavy Tank damage reduction skill only works against creeps and towers, NOT player weapons and skills. Hence, it is good for sieging but useless for defending waypoints against other players at close range.
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huh... well if what everyone is saying is true, it certainly isn't abundantly clear from reading in game texts. I never got the impression that Heavy Tank armor only helped against towers and creeps, rather I thought it worked for any damage that wasn't considered 'magical'. I don't know what tank abilities are classified as, but there appear to be 2 schools of weapon items you can buy. previously, I thought the difference was that one group was 'normal' damage and the other 'magical'. This would, in some respects, make sense considering the 'magical' items have obviously worse cost/damage ratios for given range brackets. but let me make sure I understand this correctly:
(A.) Tank abilities are classified as magic damage?
(B.) All weapon items are classified as normal damage?
(C.) Heavy Tank's armor ability only reduces damage from buildings and creeps?? (wtf this really doesnt seem right).
(D.) The number of CP's your team controls doesn't affect the income you get??
(E.) Assuming SOMETHING actually deals magical damage since the answers have been conflicting, how does tank armor take damage from them? 100%? more, less?
Thanks,
-xenocide85
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As mentioned at several points in the game, magical damage (or to be more precisly: spell damage) is done by player weapons and abilities, physical damage by creeps and towers. No exceptions.
Every weapon is based on the same ability and thus, deals the same type of damage. And the cost/damage ratios are the same for every weapon, I dont see any 'obvious' differences between them.
There is a formula for the weapons, the damage is calculated this way: damage = (4 * gold cost * fire rate * damage factor) / (0.06 * range)
The damage factor is normally 1, it just changes when the weapon has a special target restriction (etc. only heroes: 0.75, only creeps: 2.0). You'll see that every weapons fits into that formula.
To your questions:
A: yes
B: no
C: yes
D: not directly, as described above
E: here comes the spell damage again, commonly called magical damage, is not the same as the magical attack damage (which is physical), again, as described in my previous post, weapons and abilities deal full damage against tanks. The amount of armor or the type of armor they have do NOT affect them. Just physicall attacks (... creeps and towers) will be affected by this. There are creeps with a magical attack type and they will deal more damage (200%)
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"magical damage (or to be more precisly: spell damage) is done by player weapons and abilities, physical damage by creeps and towers. No exceptions."
"spell damage again, commonly called magical damage, is not the same as the magical attack damage (which is physical) ... weapons and abilities deal full damage against tanks"
"physicall attacks (... creeps and towers) ... There are creeps with a magical attack type and they will deal more damage (200%)"
WTF? So... weapons are magical damage, which isn't phyiscal, and not to be confused with magic attack damage, that does 200%? So it's a 'magic' damage that doesnt count as 200% magic damage and isn't physical damage so... wtf is it? Why the hell did you make this so confusing, can't you rename one 'magic' type of damage to sommthing else so this makes sense?
But just so I understand - weapon items and abilities are not physical damage and are not magic damage that warrants a 200% bonus damage. They are just some damage type that always does 100%, despite armor?
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gosh, its really not that hard. if you click a unit, and you see that unit has an attack type, the damage will be different due to diferrent armor types/values.
everything else (damage abilities, tank weapons etc) does just the damage which it tells it does.
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Chill out a bit. Most of this is based on the Warcraft 3 engine and thus cannot be changed easily, especially naming conventions. Although I agree that some things are not clear in the map itself (I learned a few things on this post myself), but the mapmakers ARE trying to make it clear. Lack of space in skill description is not making this easy, I reckon.
Let me summarize to see if I understand everything:
1- Every single weapon used by the player use a damage type that is NOT affected by player armor or damage reduction abilities. There is no advantage to be gained with different damage types against players. Conversely, no creep has a damage type advantage against players, and vice-versa.
2- Some creeps, towers HAVE different armor types and thus some weapons affect them more than others. Namely,
--a Heavy tank armor reduction: take less damage from creeps and towers
--b Mortar teams do more damage against buildings, as do the guard spawns (siege damage)
--c Some creeps use magical damage to better kill other creeps but not buildings.
--d Building take less damage from player weapons.
Question: What about building-only weapons (rock catapult and Burning projectiles)? I've noticed that these weapons do massive damage against buildings. Do they have a damage-type advantage against buildings?
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It's quite surprising to know that armor values only affect creep damage and not player weapons. I've always though that armor values offered a defense against player weapons. This makes some of my initial calculations a bit useless now.
So a tinker (0 armor) and a titan (25 armor) get the same amount of damage from a single shot from any (player) weapon?
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yes. armor and damage types does apply to battle tanks as well, but i dont really know the values. (only know that siege does more against buildings  ). but only few attacks in this game (creeps and tower to name them), have an attack type on this note.
ability damage and item damage (which are the weapons in BT) ignore this armor/damage type schema. if you wanna try it in wc3, the thrown hammer of the mountain king does exactly the damage which is stated in the tooltip, no matter if he targets a peon or a tauren with full armor upgrades. its just engine.
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RedNova Wrote:--d Building take less damage from player weapons.
Question: What about building-only weapons (rock catapult and Burning projectiles)? I've noticed that these weapons do massive damage against buildings. Do they have a damage-type advantage against buildings?
Buildings take full damage. There are just some abilities which are only dealing half of their damage to buildings. Player weapons are not affected by that, just like the two building-only-weapons. They have a 50% bonus damage, but only compared to the price you pay for them, they are still dealing exactly the damage which is stated in the tooltip. Maybe it does look like they are dealing more, because their damage per shot is quite high.
Its true that everything is a bit confusing, but it has been like this, since the very beginning of BT. The only change is, that there are creeps now which have a magical attack type and an advantage against tanks.
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Ok, so there are a few creeps which deal magical damage, and thus do 200% against player tanks. This seems to be the correction I needed for my point 1 in my previous post.
Just for the record, which are they?
EDIT: So building-only weapons do "more" damage just because they have a high damage shot and target only these. Still, there still is the definite advantage of single targeting something at play here, so these weapons are still very effective even though they do not have bonus damage.
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The 3 aura creeps, you can find them at the Troop Command Center.
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i think the ghosts spawned from the ghost tank have magical damage, too.
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Nope, the banshees have "normal" type damage.
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