8.44 sky fortress lvl10 & scout's tower

[DOGG1]

1st a brief thing about the scout - It's towers provide a free radar (worth $1000). This seems unbalanced for a $500 tank, especially if the opposition is using mines as a starter weapon.

Now about the sky fortress - I haven't tested this tank much but it seems quite unbalanced to be able to disable another tank's weapons and movement for that long. Take the antigrav for instance - it disables you with it's lvl 10... but you cannot be attacked which makes it fair. But with the sky fortress you can be fighting a titan with 2 frost lasers and that tank is useless because if you have a few bombs and use the tracking thing on him, all his stuff is good for nothing. he is fully disabled. An $85,000 tank shouldnt die that easy.

At least make it so the weapons still fire, but he can't move perhaps?

[RedNova]

Well, as powerful this skill seems on paper, it is a lot less effective than I though it would be. For example:
- You cant move too while you "snatch" a player. If you snatched him out of the range of your weapons, you cant damage him and effectively wasted your ultimate.
- He can be helped by other teammates, therefore making you more vulnerable than your quarry.

That ultimate is quite powerful, but so is the ultimates of the other endgame tanks (invincibility for Titan, rain of chaos for infernal). It targets a single player, which has it's limitations. It makes you an incredibly deadly poacher for stray tanks, but that's about it.

As for the scout towers, remember that they can be destroyed, and even then they can only identify mines, not disable them. Good players can do the same without any radar, just by looking at the behavior of the tank who lay mines, and by guesswork. And 500 range is very small. Unless you know there is a mine (and in that case, why use any kind of radar?), detecting a mine with a scout tower is mainly luck.

Usually, the skill (scout tower) is usually used to counter another skill (demolisher mines), so using cash as a gauging method is a bit awkward. It's like saying the teleport skill on a tinker is IMBA because it is a 3000$ item for free on a 0$ tank.

[DOGG1]

The tinker's towers have increasing range with module level. i think these towers should too.

Regarding the sky fortress - i don't see how u can argue for disabling all weapons, regardless of damage (4 lasers?). Yes it's a top poacher. Teleport, use ulti, win every time. Other tanks can do this too but at least you stand a chance to get away. The opponent will have what, 3-4 seconds of free shooting you before you can fight back? Sometimes this is more than enough to kill you outright before you too can teleport out if you have a TP item of some kind.

This skill should either be changed so that the target cannot attack or be attacked while being beamed (as with antigrav).... or simply allow the target to shoot while being beamed... i guess because of ground tanks you can't pull them in or they might get stuck? So i'd say just let it shoot then.

I like the beam idea but it's really imbalanced like this IMO.

[TKF]

Actually to be honest, the sky fortress ulti is really a killer. Disabling a tanks weapons is the best ability ingame. (Does it stop active infernal rain?)
I think also 2.8 + 0.7 sec total disabling of weapons, movement and skills is quite much. But you must stand still while using the skill to substain it.

And also the "system overload" visual effects are NOT impressive, maybe add a doom buff effect on target while being holded, just to make it clear visually that the target isn't just inside a lame orange cage (SRY, but his 2 other skills looks much more impressive with its visual effects, and ulti is therefore visually lame in comparison), but also being disabled meanwhile.


The Titans ulti was nerfed cuz it was too strong. Is system overload too strong? I only think it maybe lasts a bit long. Maybe it need increased mana cost.


And about the scout tower, it has been nerfed. I don't find it detecting abilities very good, as it is quite short with 500, and I even hit the mines as a scout. If the tower skill has been replaced with "scan and detonate mine" skill, maybe it has been a good counter to demolisher tactic. But still demolisher is still owning scout IMO if scout try to advance and push against a team with demolisher. All demolisher skills are effective against scout, but I'm not sure if it's ulti would been blocked by defensive system skill.

[Gammagulp]

I think the ulti is the only really useful skill of the Sky fortress, in comparison to other tanks of the same costs.
Extra HP - hmmm, its flying and just add the lost hp cause of it.
It can boost - hmm i didnt kill someone by that skill right now - more by teleport - and have bad luck using the damage by collision good
Bombs - i think they are difficult to use - and often i damage myself :/
Ulti - really good killer, while the rest cant stun and is not that good IMO

@scout - I also dont think that tower radar is so imba, cause i never heard someone whining, that the tinker can build hard lasertowers with real 1000 detection range module and only cost 0$ (like redNova said); also the demo can lay big mines (like 2500$ mine layer), since he is lvl 10 for 1900$ and so on 8)

And yes demolisher ulti is blocked by scout defense system, but Energy Bomb Ulti of sky tank not,
and i think the lightning of the thunder tank also ?

[TKF]

Well, both skills can be combined. Speed boost might be useful for catching up, then using ulti.

Bombs are hard to use, but lethal! At lv5, 2500x5 = 12500!!!! hock: hock: hock: Yeah insane amount of damage!

____

But come to think of it, I think I suggested something like turbo boost earlier as well as it's ulti (similar) on a air ballon idea.

Turbo boost is added damage, and it's ulti is much the same, but also disables weapons as well.

Engine Overdrive Boost (W) - Active - Boost the speed for the ship above the speed limit and make it fly fast a short distance, but travels straight ahead (or directed area). Good for chasing enemies and retreating. This requires triggering.

lv1: 250 + current speed for 800 range ahead.
lv2: 400 + current speed for 900 range ahead.
lv3: 550 + current speed for 1000 range ahead.
lv4: 700 + current speed for 1100 range ahead.
lv5: 850 + current speed for 1200 range ahead.

...

Holding Chain (R) - Active - Fires a long lasting energy chain that does considerable damage over time and slow target with 50%. The bolt lasts for 3 seconds or until stunned or out of range. Cast range 800, chain max range 1200. The Caster cannot move while casting the spell.

lv1: 400 damage pr second.
lv2: 500 damage pr second.
lv3: 600 damage pr second.
lv4: 700 damage pr second.
lv5: 800 damage pr second.

http://btanks.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=...764#p17764

[Exodus]

I dont want to disappoint you TKF, but I already had the ideas before you posted them Although it kinda was a confermation that this were good ideas. I only took the Bomb idea directly from Horselance, since I think that they fit well into the theme. Just like the passive HP bonus, I didn't want to use the passive speed bonus again, so this was a good alternative, since both the Boost and the Bombs are kinda risky.

I also thought about increasing the Radar Range of the Watch Towers to 750. I dont think that this is comparable to an 1000 gold item, since its static and wont move around with you, the range is still smaller than that of the radar, you won't have it around you everytime and it can be destroyed.

Now to the Fortress ultimate, yes its a very strong ability, just like its meant to be. If it wouldnt disable weapons, you'd only use it on enemies when you are sure you are stronger than them, otherwise it would be too risky. I think this would nerf the ultimate too much, even increasing the duration wouldnt help then, because you'd have to stay around longer and thus risking that other opponents will help your target.
Its true that the ultimate just wont drag ground units to you, because it would be difficult when there are cliffs or trees around, but I also wanted to create an ability with an advantage against air units. And yes, this skill will stop the Infernal Fire Rain.
And TKF, you are right, the visuals of that skill arent that overwhelming ^^ I suck at creating well looking effects, maybe I'll change something there.

[Carcharoth2]

And TKF, you are right, the visuals of that skill arent that overwhelming ^^ I suck at creating well looking effects, maybe I'll change something there.

pls dont change, some guys play with really old PC, like me

To the topic.
If the ullti is nerved nobody would play skyfortress anymore. Infernal is still the most used late game tank. I think this is argument enough

[TKF]

The visual effect doesn't require that much. I have also an 7 year old pc. It it's still pwning my laptop which is only half years old. Well I got vista (+tons of crap programs) on laptop and XP on stationary, so that's why.

sry I haven't noticed the sky forts ulti effects yet. I must be very blind :mrgreen: