Scout? Yeah i'll call IMBA on that.

[Swordy]

Guys

The scout really has imbalenced the game. They make light tanks and helis obselete!

Please just screw the scout and go back to the good old 8.42 days =]

[Tribulation]

We already have a discussion about the Scout's alleged imbaness, which is of course closely connected to the discussion about MultiBow (which has been nerfed recently):

http://btanks.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=15&t=1091

Besides: the Strategy Forum isn't the place for such a discussion.

[RedNova]

How about a strategy then?

- Use hard hitting weapons and AoE spells when a scout is farming. Personnaly, I like the first spell of both LT and Heli (AoE) and basic cannon, which both can get. Two hits and the spell and any scout early on are dead. Later, when he gets more HP with a hull, just use more firepower.

- Push! A farming scout can get little nourishment if he does not have access to easy creeps. So get offensive and ATTACK. Capture those waypoints and a scout will be much more pressed to farm.

- Never let someone feed alone in a lane. Never.

- Destroy the scout towers as early as possible. Not only do they give you cash, they also gimp his farming abilities, not to mention his defensive one (scout towers can soak up hits).

- Scouts, unless equipped with weapons, cannot hurt a tank in any way! So give them hell by closing on them!

Bottom line: Dont't EVEN THINK you can out-farm a scout! That's his specialty! So adapt to the situation by getting decent DPS and a aggressive strategy to prevent him from farming.

Hope that helps :-)

PS: Yeah, tried that in .45 and it works great.

[ycoseth]

I used to play Scout a lot and here's the things I was most afraid of:

-Energy Torpedo
For all the reasons it's good against Heli/LT, make it double so for the Scout. Starting out with such low HP means a single hit takes you to half health and forces a retreat. 2 ET and it's a single shot kill. Forcing constant retreats will lower the income of a farming scout.

-High HP
Despite the better weapons a Scout can buy early on, it's low HP means it will lose many battles because it simply can't stand and bang with weaker weapons on tougher tanks. A Demo/Basic Magic can run off a Light Plasma (Upgrade) Scout most times. The longer a fight goes on, the creeps drop and the Scout is too fragile to hold up in any type of fight.

-Of course, the AoE
Light Tank, Helicopter, Demolisher, Anti-Grav, and Exploder. All of these tanks early on have some sort of AoE that will tool on the Scout badly. The Anti-Grav especially can jump into close range and pound on the Scout, and the Demolisher's long range catapult means even the longest distance Scouts can be killed.

[DerSatan]

as you mentioned the scout vs demolisher matchup, i recognized the demolisher pretty well counteres the scout. thats so funny because the scout can detect mines, and therefore should counter the demolisher in some way early on. the opposite is the case. why?


the scout has very few HP, so he cant compete with a demolisher early on. if he bought a hull, he can effort the same weapons as the demo, but has weaker skills. however, he is faster than the demo, but that will only let you retreat in time, avoiding a death, but missing some creepgold/experience.

no skill of the demolisher is targeted (until ultimate), making defensive systems useless against him. he can skill whatever he wants vs scout, everything is strong (although mines can be detected, but they restrict the scouts movement quite a lot).


this is particularly surprising as many people still consider the scout as too strong while thinking the demolisher was nerfed too much last version.

[RedNova]

I guess too many people stick to a few builds only. They are missing on a lot, and call IMBA when a change goes in their defavor. Not targeting anyone in particular here, I'm basing this on the pre-match conversions I see before each match-up.

[kittyonmyfoot]

as you mentioned the scout vs demolisher matchup, i recognized the demolisher pretty well counteres the scout. thats so funny because the scout can detect mines, and therefore should counter the demolisher in some way early on. the opposite is the case. why?

I found that pretty odd too. The other thing is that you can get the scout + the small mine so instead of fewer mines in a game you have bigger mines >.<

As far as the scout being fragile... Lately I've been playing with the scout + upgraded light plasma... then adding an iron hull... add a fireball... up fireball... up hull... save for gold hull... then match 5~7k weapon to counter best opponent on opposite team...

That seems to work well for me and really the only fragile time is when you're saving 1250 for the first hull... which goes by quickly considering you get force gold in addition to your creeping. After that the defensive system adds life regen in addition to the spell block so I'm always at the front of the battle unless I run back for a tele to pk at a cp.

So ya a scout with 7k hp can take out a heavy tank easy. The funny thing is that I noticed that the ensnare that people can tele out of is the only thing that works 100% of the time on the scout and is targetable to the unit. So... grab your net launchers if that scout is really annoying you.

[ycoseth]

As far as the scout being fragile... Lately I've been playing with the scout + upgraded light plasma (3000)... then adding an iron hull (1250)... add a fireball (2200)... up fireball (700?)... up hull (650?)... save for gold hull (5000)... then match 5~7k weapon to counter best opponent on opposite team (5050, let's just say Fear Magic)...

I dunno if I buy this. That is a total of 17850 gold, and you have:

Scout
-Iron Hull (Upgrade)
-Gold Hull
-Light Plasma Gun (Upgrade) (~180 DPS)
-Fireball Cannon (Upgrade) (205 DPS)
-Fear Magic (336 DPS)

For a total of ~7000 HP, and ~720 DPS. For the same cost one could go:

LT/BMx2 (3022) -> Up BMx2 (1110) -> Heavy Tank (5100) -> Swarm Rockets (3300) -> Swarm Rockets (3300) -> Up Swarmx2 (2400)

That's a total of 18232, a mere 400 more than what you are proposing, and it looks like:

Heavy Tank
-Basic Magic Upgrade(111 DPS)
-Basic Magic Upgrade(111 DPS)
-Swarm Rockets Upgrade (300 DPS)
-Swarm Rockets Upgrade (300 DPS)

For a total of ~5500 HP, and 822 DPS. I don't see how you would dominate the opposing HT. There's also the common buy of the HT getting a Speed Boost and then he is faster than you. Not even bringing in the better skills. The HT rocket cools down faster than Defensive Systems does, so you will eventually get caught in a Rocket/HoB 1-2 punch.

[kittyonmyfoot]

You're making a lot of assumptions there... You're assuming I'm not out farming him and that he's able to keep up with my player kills and that he is fighting me and only me. Usually after 4~5 wasted rockets people give up and do the 1~2 punch on someone else where they're guaranteed a kill then after their woundend I come in and do a little more damage and take them out.

Also I think swarm rockets are horrible for the HT I'd go with shorter range weapons... Lastly I'm not sure if I'd use fear magic to counter swarm rockets... I'd probably go with rocket hail... depending on how they use the swarmies.

Neither here nor there... don't really care if you buy it I took out a HT with a fireball and short laser, then a medium laser, and lastly with a long laser and I was able to stick to my set up until I had 15k and sold the scout and the light hull and bought a demon + speed pack. I didn't have fear magic though... I went with lightning magic + upgrade. Just to be a b*tch vs. the short laser. One other thing you forget is that I can use the watch tower to draw fire and help tank so my 2k additional health goes even further. That and hugging CPs works well in conjunction with the defensive systems.

In either case... if you doubt it... try it and see if you like it. I did after I had a heck of a time killing a scout using tornado summoner and the Iron hull with my anti-grav tank and a glaive. I just couldn't farm enough to catch up to him. Then finally I fed off his allies and he quit when he realized he was the only one capable of watching the CPs. Also, he went heavy tank vs gold hull... I like the gold hull because the scout's skills are very useful to getting away and a gold hull on a demon tank is just ridiculous.

[RedNova]

Another trick against scouts: Gravity tanks.

Gravity tanks are usually close-ranged, can move fast thanks to their jumps, can use is first spell to go over defensive measures (AoE).

BUT...

The real kicker is it's ultimate. As any good grav-tank player will know, this baby is custom made to rid a creep cover from an unsuspecting opponent. And guess what? It is not affected by the scouts defensive system because of game mechanics (in .45 and below at least).

So:
1- Get a scout alone far from the next creep wave (even if it is currently surrounded by some).
2- Phase him using ultimate.
3- Get close and wipe any creeps and even scout tower.
4- Once fade is up, kill the shmuck.

As scouts have ZERO skills to prevent this or hurt you back, the mere fact that you are close to him without a creep cover and a tower is usually a sure ticket to death.

[kittyonmyfoot]

The real kicker is it's ultimate. As any good grav-tank player will know, this baby is custom made to rid a creep cover from an unsuspecting opponent. And guess what? It is not affected by the scouts defensive system because of game mechanics (in .45 and below at least).

ha... noice ^.^

[Althend]

But since you have ultimate, you can be sure the scout has hull...

[RedNova]

If he hasn't, he's probably not the kind of player that gave the thread maker a reason to vent here :-)