adding a pernament freeze time at start

[ChronicStoned]

although i voted for 15 seconds(im not sure what i exactly choose, maybe it was even 20 seconds...) i am against any freeze time now.
the only commands to be entered are -rc(i think every player uses this, why not make it standard like -w?) and -zoom xxxx
if you have problems with beginners who don't know what to do/buy, 15 seconds won't change an inch.
they will frequently ask you again and again what to buy and what to do next(or the completely opposite and they won't communicate in any way).
also telling them what to do doesn't make them play better, the only thing able to increase their skill is experience, experience and even more experience.
so if you want to play a match without feeders use such game names as 'skilled players', 'pros' , 'no beginners'
ofcourse the best ways to play a feeding-free game are creating clan internal games or atleast with players from whom you already know they're not completely incapable of playing in a team.


this might sound very impolite and arrogant, but i only want to give my opinion.
in addition i think most players here have noticed the described characteristics of beginners.
personally i am tired of explaining and describing again and again how auto-fire weapons are working or why a 200hp tinker will be killed by a demolisher within seconds.
i'm just sick of it.

[Gammagulp]

But what has beginners to do with a freeze time for making the start of a game equal. So you got time to do your 1 or 2 typings and the host can choose its mode and his typings too. Also holding the creep spawns back for 10seconds would help to overcome this.

And what is with 3 players want to buy a light tank and 2 basics. Its not so rare, but you need 1 second until the weapon in the shops respawned. Sometime you are staying some time there. Not often, but it happens.

[Dr.McNinja]

Full noobs will not learn how to play in 15 seconds and that wouldnt be the point of freeze time. Like ive said, it would allow people to have 15 seconds to look around the weapon and item shops because i often see people spend time in base just looking around, but who arent complete noobs. Unless you have memorised every weapon and item in base and their price, you may end up spending time looking through shops. And its not about typing commands! That was only a minor thing, but still something to point out which everyone has done already.

[Vomitus]

So no creep spawns, cant cp-tp for 15 seconds would easily work as a 'freeze time'. Theres a lot of names for it.

No. That's not the point why this whole thread was started. The point is to make game start more fair, more pro-looking. The point is to get rid of most nuances that are not intended in gameplay process but that affect the result in any way (positive or negative). I am talking about such things like (I will repeat myself once again) distance between shops, number of items to buy at start, inability to CP-teleport in case of exact 3000 build, number of commands you have to type at start and something maybe else: all this actually does not reflect neither your level of skill, nor your chosen tactic advantage or disadvantage. Everything described is side effect of current map mechanics, not gameplay. But it does have positive or negative impact on starting conditions: those with exact 3000 build will get to front line much later than others, those who have to buy many items will also get later, those who are trader will get to mid extremely fast. I don't see why should one have a disadvantage just because shops are located too far or their build does not allow them to teleport at once to front line?

the only commands to be entered are -rc(i think every player uses this, why not make it standard like -w?)

This is not only command that I usually type, but I agree - this one should be enabled by default.
There is also -zoom command which is absolutely necessary to use but it is individual for each player, so at the moment we cannot avoid using any commands at start at all.
Commands -anglez 70 (or 80) and -e (when I am host) are also necessary for me, if someone is interested.

if you have problems with beginners who don't know what to do/buy, 15 seconds won't change an inch.

I don't think the problem here is with beginners, but to make map more pro-looking like.

And what is with 3 players want to buy a light tank and 2 basics. Its not so rare, but you need 1 second until the weapon in the shops respawned. Sometime you are staying some time there. Not often, but it happens.

So, there a bit of problems here, let me suggest some solutions.

1. Introduce permanent freeze time (15-20 seconds).
   
2. Allow "-r" command.
   
3. All shop cooldowns can be decreased by half.
   Or, if that matters, only 'critical' items like basic magic (that could be bought in large quantities at once) would have decreased shop cooldown.
   
4. During freeze time Tank movement is disallowed, creep spawn stopped, money income stopped.
   At this point I can also suggest not to stop money income as a possible solution for 'Light Tank + 2*Basic Magic' build to follow general concept.
   
5. During freeze time each shop has radius equal to infinity.
   This means that you can buy anything anywhere at start without having to make a slightest move.
   
6. During freeze time all tank skills are disabled.
   
7. During freeze time CP teleport ability is available.
   
8. During freeze time + 10 seconds CP teleport costs 0 gold.
   
9. On freeze time elapse cancel all above.

[Dr.McNinja]

Uh, everything ive said contributes to 'fairness'; balance, did you read it all? You quoted the summary of my idea on one way to implement freeze time. And you have posted your own idea on it, one based on freezing the tanks themselves. Its also much more complicated and requies MUCH more effort, just getting creeps to not spawn and restricting tank movement (as per my idea) could be a ton of work for the time-striken exodus.

Something else that might be interesting to note (with or without freeze time):

First cp-tp in the game should be free. This eliminates the problem of not having enough gold to tp at start due to some builds not having much gold left over for it.

the only command i would want to type at the very start is zoom. the rest can wait til later, theres absolutely no rush for them.

[ChronicStoned]

This is not only command that I usually type, but I agree - this one should be enabled by default.
There is also -zoom command which is absolutely necessary to use but it is individual for each player, so at the moment we cannot avoid using any commands at start at all.
Commands -anglez 70 (or 80) and -e (when I am host) are also necessary for me, if someone is interested.

i wrote down -zoom xxxx, i couldn't play without -zoom
-e is also default

in my opinion it is balanced when someone who buys more items or more expensive ones enters the battlefield later. this just seems logical to me.
as a light tank(without random):
if you buy one 2k gold weapon you can enter the battlefield immediately(cptp), but you will deal less damage then the followings.
by buying a 2.2k gold weapon you have to 'walk' before you can fight, but you do more damage .
when buying 2 basic magics for 2.222 gold you have to 'walk' and in addition you have to wait around 10seconds(not sure) before you can buy the second one
(because of the 22gold, not because of the shops cooldown)

Allow "-r" command.

a host(red player) only command forcing every player to buy random tanks? i'd like to see that

All shop cooldowns can be decreased by half.

great suggestion, or maybe let the shop sell more weapons of the same name at once (up to 5 basic magics in the shop for example)

Each shop has radius equal to infinity.

i'm not sure, maybe only the base shops or only in the first five minutes.
would be a little insane if you can buy everything you want where ever you are.

But it does have positive or negative impact on starting conditions: those with exact 3000 build will get to front line much later than others, those who have to buy many items will also get later, those who are trader will get to mid extremely fast. I don't see why should one have a disadvantage just because shops are located too far or their build does not allow them to teleport at once to front line?

in my opinion it is balanced when someone, who buys more items or more expensive ones, enters the battlefield later. this just seems logical to me.
as a light tank(without random):
if you buy one 2k gold weapon you can enter the battlefield immediately(cptp), but you will deal less damage then the following builds.
by buying a 2.2k gold weapon you have to 'walk' before you can fight, but you do more damage .
when buying 2 basic magics for 2.222 gold you have to 'walk' and in addition you have to wait around 10seconds(not sure) before you can buy the second one
(because of the 22gold, not because of the shops cooldown) in exchange you get higher range and dps(in total) and you can nearly double the dps without retreating by simply upgrading the weapons.

[Vomitus]

Allow "-r" command.

a host(red player) only command forcing every player to buy random tanks? i'd like to see that

It was intended as 'ready' command. So when everyone is ready (considering pro game) every player types -r command and game starts before freeze time naturally exceeds.
But your suggestion about 'force all random' is good in the ways of new game mod. It should be added to the mod selection menu under the 'Custom Mod' menu.

All shop cooldowns can be decreased by half.

great suggestion, or maybe let the shop sell more weapons of the same name at once (up to 5 basic magics in the shop for example)

This could be useful, of course, but having cooldown is a good way to prevent occasionally buying two items when you wanted to by only one. And it works fine as it is - we need that cooldown. But a bit reduction would be fine.

Each shop has radius equal to infinity.

i'm not sure, maybe only the base shops or only in the first five minutes.
would be a little insane if you can buy everything you want where ever you are.

I mistyped and forgot to add 'During freeze time' clause. I've edited original post and corrected that error. So, only 'at preparation' you'll be able to buy everything, not during a game.

in my opinion it is balanced when someone, who buys more items or more expensive ones, enters the battlefield later. this just seems logical to me.
as a light tank(without random):
if you buy one 2k gold weapon you can enter the battlefield immediately(cptp), but you will deal less damage then the following builds.
by buying a 2.2k gold weapon you have to 'walk' before you can fight, but you do more damage .
when buying 2 basic magics for 2.222 gold you have to 'walk' and in addition you have to wait around 10seconds(not sure) before you can buy the second one
(because of the 22gold, not because of the shops cooldown) in exchange you get higher range and dps(in total) and you can nearly double the dps without retreating by simply upgrading the weapons.

So, it's your opinion, and my opinion I already have expressed. I have nothing to object at the moment, but also nothing to agree with.

Uh, everything ive said contributes to 'fairness'; balance, did you read it all? You quoted the summary of my idea on one way to implement freeze time. And you have posted your own idea on it, one based on freezing the tanks themselves. Its also much more complicated and requies MUCH more effort, just getting creeps to not spawn and restricting tank movement (as per my idea) could be a ton of work for the time-striken exodus.

Yeah, I know. The way you want to do this is much more simple and less time consuming in the ways of implementation. But my version is more close to ideal I think

Something else that might be interesting to note (with or without freeze time):

First cp-tp in the game should be free. This eliminates the problem of not having enough gold to tp at start due to some builds not having much gold left over for it.

I agree. A deserving solution.