Some new items

[Althend]

Just some idea in order to add strategy and fun.


1/ Aura item
--> one that increases speed 5%-10%-15%
--> one to increase defense +1 +2 +3
--> One to get some evade. 2%-4%-6%

2/ Skills item
--> one that gives 4%-8%-12% evade
--> one that we can use as decoy: when we use it, it create a double of our tank that can't move and make use invisible during 20 sec.
--> money duplicator: give +2 gold each time we kill one unit. +100 when we kill a tank
--> ultra hull : -5/-10/-15 damage on each attack


3/ Some weapons
--> With splash damage and collateral effets
--> With multi effect as slow
--> With penalities for the owner (reduce defense, or reduce speed)

[AngryMasturbator]

All these ideas are pretty pointless and i would not like to have them in the game.

[Batto]

Actually i must totally agree with our masturbator on this. Those suggestions look just too much dotalike for my liking... Also do those things seem to be really hard to balance.

[horselance]

I first thought to explain why those items are so imba/useless. No need...

[Exodus]

Actually I was planning to implement such items to make some new Packs and Combos. If they are pointless or not just depends on how you balance them, I thinks its possible to make such items a valuable choice, espacially when the enemy is going for a creep-strat (for Anit-Creep-Items) or when you want to play a supporter role (like Ghost or Guard).

[Batto]

Well, then we will see when you implement it if we were wrong or not I would be most happy if i were wrong, just because its nice to have more options and possible strategies, i just cant see the real benefit from these suggestions at the moment.

[TKF]

I cannot imagine those items being added in btanks. However new aura items might be interesting. I'm currently bored with the current items. I'm bored of looking on the new defuser icon and looking on the troll shop with so lot of space (for potencial new items) freaks me out.

I like damage items, like orbital control. And mines are fun.



But new items would be more fun.

(What about a force field item?)

[horselance]

Ok... Exodus seems to like some of these ideas. So needed to explain things:

At first i remind you MG version!!! All these items you say are in MG version and we all know MG version is out of balance...
Mirror image item/ AoE Wepons / Slowing wepons / Evasion items... All in MG...

Althend wrote :
--> one that we can use as decoy: when we use it, it create a double of our tank that can't move and make use invisible during 20 sec.

Can you guess what this item does? You get invisible for 20 sec? This means multipely strong than smoke... And u create duplicate for 20 sec... And lets make an item that make us invincible and will do one shot kills... "OMG" is only comment...

+1 +2 +3 armor ? what is this? is this a joke? i will spare my precious 1/6 inventory slot for what? 10% protection from creeps and towers?

4%-8%-12% evade? what is this? is this a joke? i will spare my precious 1/6 inventory slot for what? 10% protection from creeps and towers? Dejavu...

-5/-10/-15 damage on each attack. Didnt understand from physical or magical damage?.. Both way it is useless. It can be useful vs lasers (wepon or tower?) and that is 15%. And meaningless vs other weapons(if magical) and useless vs creeps and cannon towers and... Totally useless......

And weapons..
AoE damage = creeps slaughter

Slow ; well maybe too tiny slow can be... Not more than 10%...

If an item reduces my speed, than it must be better than its "same cost wepons". You will buy a speedpack. And now it is a cheap wepon. Now buy 3 of this weapon... (Oh damn we cant buy 3 weapons because we got a hull, a speedpack, an evasion item, Armor aura item and damage reduction item and that cheap weapon...) Ah but there is a solution: lets make an Ultra pack that cost 30k which gives you all useless auras and useless abilities... Ahahah.

An item reduces my armor? Well so be it... If it is cheap i buy it. Armor is not so important anyway... How can you compensate "armor vs weapon damage" in cost i really wonder.

That was the shortest way to explain...

[Althend]

At first i remind you MG version!!! All these items you say are in MG version and we all know MG version is out of balance...
Mirror image item/ AoE Wepons / Slowing wepons / Evasion items... All in MG...

As Exodus said, it is always possible to balance it.

Can you guess what this item does? You get invisible for 20 sec? This means multipely strong than smoke... And u create duplicate for 20 sec... And lets make an item that make us invincible and will do one shot kills... "OMG" is only comment...

It may be an item we can use only one time and the balance may be done by the time. And the duration can be change :o

+1 +2 +3 armor ? what is this? is this a joke? i will spare my precious 1/6 inventory slot for what? 10% protection from creeps and towers?

It is more than you think and using 1/6 of inventory in roder to boost creep and allied players around is something useful for teamplay. It can be change by +3/+6/+9.... All can be balanced.

4%-8%-12% evade? what is this? is this a joke? i will spare my precious 1/6 inventory slot for what? 10% protection from creeps and towers? Dejavu...

Deja vu and?
1/6 of the invetory for -10% for a whole team is more than you think.

-5/-10/-15 damage on each attack. Didnt understand from physical or magical damage?.. Both way it is useless. It can be useful vs lasers (wepon or tower?) and that is 15%. And meaningless vs other weapons(if magical) and useless vs creeps and cannon towers and... Totally useless......

Useless why? Because it is not imba? Because it may just be usefull againt some type of weapons?
And if -5/-15 isn't enough, we can change it by -15/-30/-45

AoE damage = creeps slaughter

And? They are already creep slaughter weapons.
These one would be usefull against groups and also against tank.
It is really possible to balance it. Then explain why it is a problem.

If an item reduces my speed, than it must be better than its "same cost wepons". You will buy a speedpack. And now it is a cheap wepon. Now buy 3 of this weapon... (Oh damn we cant buy 3 weapons because we got a hull, a speedpack, an evasion item, Armor aura item and damage reduction item and that cheap weapon...) Ah but there is a solution: lets make an Ultra pack that cost 30k which gives you all useless auras and useless abilities... Ahahah.

And?
The mine defuser make mines useless. Radar makes smoke generator useless.
It is natural there are things in order to counter items.
And if you still want to act dumb, you can also take smoke generator, radar, hull, mine defuser, regen and battery, you will also be unable to take weapon T_t
Give a real argument...

An item reduces my armor? Well so be it... If it is cheap i buy it. Armor is not so important anyway... How can you compensate "armor vs weapon damage" in cost i really wonder.

It is always possible.

That was the shortest way to explain...

I just can see that you don't understand that items may be usefull for teamplay or not only in order to do selfish play.
It's quit logic that aura item aren't usefull if you don't aim to play in team.
It's logic that it must exist weakness in each item.

[Vomitus]

All can be balanced.

It is nearly same to say "Everything can be invented".
I don't think everyone can imagine usages of any suggestions without concrete examples. Because bare pattern without dimensions corresponds to an infinite space of abstractions: huge differences between dimensions make an illusion that this difference is in shape. As was in your case - regarding to whole your comment.

[horselance]

I was talking about your given numbers. +1 +2 +3 / -5 -10 -15 etc...

Frost Magic makes a creep slaugter but none buys it. It was mentioned in another topic... And if you make a weapon that hits both heroes, and also it kills all creeps in an area, this is too powerful / too useful. If it wont attack heroes, then you wont spend it much money (like frost magic). That is why we wont need such a weapon...

Damage reduction will be imba in any condition. if you make it -5 -10 -15: it is useless vs anything. if you make it -15 -30 -45 then it is only usefull vs lasers and flamer, and useless vs all other weapons. And why only laser and flamer weapons will be countered? To make them unusable things like mines / explosives?

And I dont buy mines / mine defuse kits. I dont buy any counterable thing. Those are all out of my interest. I sweep mines myself... And in a game at most i die 3-4 times by mines. This is less bounty then a radar item... Whatever this is also another mentioned topic...

+3+6+9 or whatever... How many times you die to creeps in a game? If not laggy i dont die to creeps. And i dont even notice those creeps die when i fight. They are cookies... Nothing more. We kill them mostly with our wepons, they dont kill each other... even +15 armor wont make them live any longer.
Think that armor/wepon upgrades for creeps are permanent+global but we dont even do this upgrades if not necessary for inf/frost/titan - even that dont cost an inventory slot!
**But if this is a global aura/upgrade then it can be a little useful !!**

I still dont see any teamplay relevant item here except that speed aura item (that i didnt comment on (will think about numbers)).

On a hill u get 50% evasion and an item makes us 6% evade? My precious 1/6 inventory slot:)

You will protect that creeps? And who will protect you while your enemy buys better equipments and begin to attack you while you spend your money on aura thing? Maybe creeps will protect you... I dont think they will...

I think u played too much hero survivals or Diablo II with Paladin, we dont fight vs creeps...
Thats why we dont need armor or evasion auras...

But if map-makers want to create and balance these items: their own decision. I wouldnt give 50 gold for a 6% evasion aura item... My precious 1/6

[Althend]

Frost Magic makes a creep slaugter but none buys it. It was mentioned in another topic... And if you make a weapon that hits both heroes, and also it kills all creeps in an area, this is too powerful / too useful. If it wont attack heroes, then you wont spend it much money (like frost magic). That is why we wont need such a weapon...

I don't see why you can't understand that it can be balanced by power and price.

Damage reduction will be imba in any condition. if you make it -5 -10 -15: it is useless vs anything. if you make it -15 -30 -45 then it is only usefull vs lasers and flamer, and useless vs all other weapons. And why only laser and flamer weapons will be countered? To make them unusable things like mines / explosives?

To make people use low firerate weapon and i don't think that mines and explosives are unusable.
If you see that all your enemies use fast delay weapon, these items are usefull. It is the same as bomber when you see many air/ground tanks enemies.

And I dont buy mines / mine defuse kits. I dont buy any counterable thing. Those are all out of my interest. I sweep mines myself... And in a game at most i die 3-4 times by mines. This is less bounty then a radar item... Whatever this is also another mentioned topic...

It is you point of view, then we should only keep hull/speed/weapons?
I think that the fun in Btanks is that there are many variouse useful strategies.

+3+6+9 or whatever... How many times you die to creeps in a game? If not laggy i dont die to creeps. And i dont even notice those creeps die when i fight. They are cookies... Nothing more. We kill them mostly with our wepons, they dont kill each other... even +15 armor wont make them live any longer.
Think that armor/wepon upgrades for creeps are permanent+global but we dont even do this upgrades if not necessary for inf/frost/titan - even that dont cost an inventory slot!
**But if this is a global aura/upgrade then it can be a little useful !!**

I said things as suggestion, i didn't say we can't improve it.

On a hill u get 50% evasion and an item makes us 6% evade? My precious 1/6 inventory slot:)

And if this item also make you evade 6/15% effect of an enemy skills? And if it makes evade for all units around you?
It can be useful for my 1/6 slot (or slot of my turrets)

You will protect that creeps? And who will protect you while your enemy buys better equipments and begin to attack you while you spend your money on aura thing? Maybe creeps will protect you... I dont think they will...

It can be balanced by the amount of the cost :o

I think u played too much hero survivals or Diablo II with Paladin, we dont fight vs creeps...
Thats why we dont need armor or evasion auras...

We fight against creep and tanks and sometime you can lose against a skillful trader and many upgraded creep launched by 3 additionnal factories.
Diablo2 and Hero survivals sucks
Don't compare Btanks with them :o

[Exodus]

Well, its not like you will be forced to buy those items anyway ...

[horselance]

-I wont care if you implement 100 non-useful items.
-But i care if you implement 1 imba item.
-I explained why they are non-useful/imba. I dont want to see imba items and dont care for useless items.

[Kumanezuma]

IMO, i'd like to see in this game weapons that reduce armor (or HP) but have strong attack with good range. Nod so bad is creating evade-items. Thats wery good solution for blitzkrieg and supporting "useless and weak" creeps especially, when they are greatly upgraded by trader. I prefer ninja tactics thats why those items are wery usefull for me and those like choose.

BT is not only pile*pile of tanks duel :evil: ! If dont like such items/weapons - don't buy them. I will & get such "lonely warriors" like you, Horselance :twisted: .

[horselance]

Yes everyone knows i fight alone I always freelance. That items arent useful to me.

[qweqqweq]

most are not original ideas but from the ladder game


can of oil: you pour the oil on the ground to make a temporary oil slick (that means you click the item where you want to use it) that lasts for 5 minutes. whenever an enemy ground unit (or ally too if if exodus decides that instead) rolls over it, its turn rate gets 10x's slower and its stop rate becomes 10x's slower as well so that it slides forward. You could perhaps put it in front of your base and have the enemy tanks and units just slide right in.

smoke potion: makes your tank invisible for up to a minute or until you cast an ability.

dust of appearance: use it to reveal any enemy unit in a 1000 aoe. any unit in that area can't go invisible for the next 60 seconds.

potion of invulnerability: makes you invulnerable for a short time. something like 3 to 5 seconds.

speed scroll (i'm not sure what a good name for this would be): makes all ally units in nearby area go max speed for 15 to 30 seconds.

interdimensional portal beacon: it's an invisible ward that you place on the ground that will allow cp tp to that area for any allied tank for up to 3 minutes. (can be placed in enemy bases too). it can also be destroyed with radar and units or towers like normal breakers can at the moment.

hull plating: extra hit points is not as nice as extra armor. so an item that works like a hull but adds extra armor and magic damage reduction instead.

[Gammagulp]

Well I think it wont be too bad implementing some aura stones.
Maybe a Rock stone (1upgrade) - +2/+6 Armor to all untis and tanks within 850Range
Maybe an evasion stone (1upgrade) - 5% / 15% evasion from physical attacks to all units in 850Range
Maybe a feather stone (1upgrade) - +5%speed / +15%Speed for all units in 850 range

Maybe an Aura stone: its a recipe for combining all 3 stones in a complete one. And give maybe extra 7HP/sec Healing aura for creeps and tanks in 850range.

Why could such an item be not good for a ghost tank or an infernal with advaced troopcommand and infernal spawns or a teamate of a troop player with factories.

I think it would not be imbalanced, because there are 3 stones and a recipe which could cost a different amount of Gold.

You dont say the frostlaser is imba - it costs 30.000 Gold. And I dont hear a lot of people crying "Orbital Control is imba" or overpowered. I think such items could give a new fresh gameplay

(You can even take a gold hull (upgrade) and let it be combined with the aura stone to Aura Monolith with some extra % or whatever :mrgreen: )

Think of the possibilities
(It would be no waste of a slot combining the gold hull not to power pack but to Aura Pack )

[Dr.McNinja]

Has anyone considered taking the best from MG mod? Everyone seems fine with using skills/items from dota.

The assimilation system is a very good idea that can easily be implemented fairly, and
The orbs which have some effect and determine how many items you can assimilate. Cant remember what it was called but everyone bought the 1k orb that reduced enemy speed.
Special effects weapons. There was the 20k vamp gun which lifesteals 10% of damage, atomiser which shoots a poison like effect that quickly degrades troops to 1hp & was fairly effective against tanks. Net gun & sheep gun which were slow firing weapons that turned target into sheep or netted. Chain lightning gun.
Randomly spawning or fixed neutral creeps. Can be used to protect locations from being reached early game. Randomly spawning creeps to give bonus gold.

[cedi]

I think, you understimate the +15 armor. Then that means, when exodus haven't changed something on the values, that each +1 armor the hp of the unit by 6% increases. 6 * 15 = 90% more hp. That nearly doubles the hp of a unit or an tank. But I think, armor bonus works only against normal attacks not against spells, but I'm not sure.

And evade, you can create an evade, which works against normal weapons AND the tank weapon. And THEN it is strong.

All in all I like to see such weapons...

cedi