Hunter's Plague Skill is Still too Over Powered

[xplodingtinkftw]

I know that the hunter tank has already been nerfed somewhat with 8.63, however I still feel that this tank is too overpowered especially late game when most tanks are camping inside their base. I have played in several games where it came down to 4 titans vs 3 titans and a hunter. The defensive capability of the hunter makes up for its relatively low hp. The problem I have with the hunter is only with the plague skill, I know that it is ground only however late game almost all tanks end up being titan, not only does the plague skill reduce their max hp by 40 percent (which is ridiculous), it also reduces their speed dramatically. Consider this being used in combination with the hunters ult and orbital attack. The combination is very very difficult to overcome especially if the hunter's teammates assist by using their ult (Titan's ult). I know many will say that the hunter is already toned down enough but I feel very strongly that for the price 9k vs that of a titan 25k, and especially endgame, the fact that the plague skill's damage is calculated not on actual figures but percentage makes it very unreasonable in my opinion.

What I would like to see changed is first to remove and at least reduce the speed reduction that results from the plague skill. Also I would like to the plague skill have a damage cap maybe with a max damage of 3k or 3.5k (considering that the titans aoe skill only does 5k when fully lvled, also consider that the hunter's own ult only does 2800 when fully lvled), which is much more reasonable. Consider this A titan at lvl 25 has about 35k of hp without any hulls, that means if the was under the influence of the hunter's plague skill for the entire duration it would lose 14,000 hp. That is almost the equivalent of 3 titans using their aoe spells one after the other.

Some might say that to counter a hunter all you have to do is get sky fortress, well that is true, if it was only a 1v1 between sky fort and hunter. However I believe the hunter/titan team is much more efficient then the sky fort/titan combo, especially in defensive purposes. I can not emphasizes just how over powered the plague skill is when it comes to playing defense especially in cp protection. The mere sight of a hunter's plague is enough to dissuade most players from attempting to get a cp, or at least make them think twice. So in short, I believe that the hunter requires either a dramatic price, but it would be much more preferable in my opinion if the plague skill received some major nerfing.

p.s. I think its rather ironic that the hunter is usually used for defensive purposes when its name would lead you to believe otherwise.

[Equiem]

[ Damage stuff]

What I would like to see changed is first to remove and at least reduce the speed reduction that results from the plague skill. Also I would like to the plague skill have a damage cap maybe with a max damage of 3k or 3.5k [...]

I've been questioning this part aswell for quite some time. It's the only offensive skill in the game, the only other skills I can think of is the scouts and trees heals, that is based on percentages. Which of course makes it scale better then anything else.
I dont mind the slow or the crazy duration, I would rather see some tweaking done to the damage inflicted.

p.s. I think its rather ironic that the hunter is usually used for defensive purposes when its name would lead you to believe otherwise.

This is something I dont agree with. It's amazing for capturing cps with smoke + ultimate, it makes it a lot easier to push even when they're cp hugging. Hell, I might even say it makes it easier if they are since you just have to cover one area and the hunter is among the best tanks to do so(infernal/frost/titan pop into mind aswell).

[TKF]

I think this spell uses death and decays as basis and thus dealing % damage.

After the nerf I only think it slows a bit to much, since I've seen the great slow effect being a killer in many situations. Also it's very deadly in combination with the ultimate ability, which kinda makes a death trap. Also I don't mind if mana costs we're a bit higher since this is the deadliest ability in the game against end game tanks.


About the damage, I'm not sure...

[GooglyBoogly]

With the reduced aoe, %/sec and duration the hunter plague is much less scary than it once was.
Unless the ultimate is used at the same time, it is relatively simple to port out of the way. A bunker mostly counteracts the slow provided by the bomb, so CP battles aren't nearly as scary as you make them out to be. With the reduced duration is is much easier for a team of titans to defeat a team of hunters, just by not bunching and having one titan use it's ultimate to heal it's allies while they are under the effect of grav bomb.

Titans are still stronger than hunters - especially since hunters need to devote at least two slots to hulls if they don't want to get instantly killed from spell damage.

The damage needs to be kept as a %, otherwise in the later game it will become impossible to dislodge players who camp at cps, since they will just heal faster than the gas hurts em - one of the great strengths of the gas bomb is to force the enemy to vacate their cp or take significant damage.

In regards to a nerf, while I wouldn't want to see the % changed or or swapped to pure damage, nor the slow removed.
I don't see any reason why the slow from the gas shouldn't apply to allies as well (much like the ultimate)

[BENNIE.FM]

hunter is strong cause % spells

[stibi-]

tho i usually dont play hunter i like the way it is

[horselance]

If everybody think it is overpowered, then it can still use %damage but physical. So Armor will reduce damage, late game tanks will suffer less... But probably it will need to go up 5% again or will be useless totally..
But i dont think it is so overpowered anymore.. Yet i love hunter

[Althend]

I think that a nerf of hunter would make it too useless.

People may talk about combination of orbital and splash damage... But it is more a matter of opponent. Dodging his ultima and not trying around your allied players is not that hard. Main weakness of hunter is that it doesn't have any low range skill. A demon/ sky tank beat hunter easily.
Concerning the titan.... Just use 2 skills: 2x 5000 damage and then the hunter is done... Even with hull. the hunter would have no chance.
Hunter is nice tank with combo item: hull, orbital, 10x 400 gold for mana.

[xplodingtinkftw]

With the reduced aoe, %/sec and duration the hunter plague is much less scary than it once was.
Unless the ultimate is used at the same time, it is relatively simple to port out of the way.

Typically when someone uses the Hunter they use its set of skills in conjunction with each other, very rarely will a hunter use just its plague skill or just its ultimate.

With the reduced duration is is much easier for a team of titans to defeat a team of hunters, just by not bunching and having one titan use it's ultimate to heal it's allies while they are under the effect of grav bomb.

What I originally stated was not 4 titans vs 4 hunters. In that situation the result would be obvious, rather what I suggested was 4 titans vs 3 titans plus a hunter. Also while it is true it would be simple in theory for the 4 titans to simply use their ult one after the other, the likely hood of this happening is very low. Not only is it hard to determine whether the titan using its ult is on your team, it is also difficult to time your the use of your ult to begin when your teammates ult ends. In regards to avoid bunching up, typically what happens in cp offense is that all your teammates port to the cp at the same time (this is ofcourse to better distribute damage), very rarely will a group of titans actually walk to the cp in order to capture it (unless there is a breaker placed).

Titans are still stronger than hunters - especially since hunters need to devote at least two slots to hulls if they don't want to get instantly killed from spell damage.

Yes I agree with you that in 1v1 titans are obviously stronger then hunters. And yes that hunters do need at least one hull (with one gold hull a hunter's hp becomes 14k or over, since titans spell will do 5k (stun) + 5k (ground aoe) the hunter will not instantly die). However I am not talking about 1v1 situations, rather I am talking about 4 v 4 situations and not in cp pushing or defending, but in base defending where tanks cannot simply tp and surround a titan.

The damage needs to be kept as a %, otherwise in the later game it will become impossible to dislodge players who camp at cps, since they will just heal faster than the gas hurts em - one of the great strengths of the gas bomb is to force the enemy to vacate their cp or take significant damage.

In my experience in late games all the cp's have usually already been captured by one team. The defending team (usually the team with the hunter) usually has already lost most of their base factories and have had to resort to buying their own factories and planting them behind the castle. However this presents a rather unique opportunity for the defending team, because as long as they don't die the only income the offensive team has is force gold and the miniscule number of spawned creeps. In this situation as long as they play solid defense the defending team can hold out indefinitely, not only does the hunter provide invaluable defensive skill sets (delay them in coming, delay them in running away) the offensive team is usually bunched up to maximize the usefulness of their ult (if they separate, they are usually killed right away). After defending the base for a while, the defending usually has enough of an advantage to push (feeding from creeps primarily but also enemy tanks).

[qweqqweq]

i like the hunter the way that it is. it's a specialty tank and it makes defending easier. i'd rather see some sort of new dynamic way to get into the enemy base at the end then to nerf the hunter. i love the acid skill, it's not easy to use and it works even better with teamwork and it doesn't do shit to air. i understand what you're saying tink but i still think there's a cooler fix elsewhere.

if my team's got all the cps and we have 3v3 and they are 2 titans and 1 hunter then i'd recomend all my team get infernals or sky fort instead of titans and then to rely on good teamwork to overcome (which sometimes doesn't happen).

[BENNIE.FM]

I love the tank awesome it has alot of strategy to it but for how much damage it can do over short period of time is enormous this tank is not 9k but around 11k to me from the get go it can get a titan from 30000 to 5k hp in 5 seconds and this just not 1 titan but 3-4 tanks at once.

[qweqqweq]

I love the tank awesome it has alot of strategy to it but for how much damage it can do over short period of time is enormous this tank is not 9k but around 11k to me from the get go it can get a titan from 30000 to 5k hp in 5 seconds and this just not 1 titan but 3-4 tanks at once.

i like 9k since the hunter's such a mana whore. u need so much batteries to get it full power anyhow. plus, very tricky to use short range. it gets stuck in its own ult after all.

[Kesarion]

Agreed, the damage from that plague gas needs some tinkering. Either make it fixed, like say "x" damage over "y" seconds or tone it down a little.

[Tynkywinky]

How much hp do the hunter have in later game? Lw 25 + gold hull. U can kill it easily, just stun + the ground skill. then the hunter is dead.

[horselance]

Battle Tanks is a colorful game. All tanks must not be same at a specific point of game. Includes end game.
An Exploder can kill a titan with 95% hp.. Though it will need explosives costing more than 1.5x titan.
An Antigrav can Stasise 1 tank till end of a 4v4 combat making it 4v3 for 5 sec..
A Shreder can take out 1 enemy tank to make it an easy kill for team..
A Guard can heal allies for 30% and damage enemies for 15% instantly (for 6 tanks included this means ~120% tank hp average..)
A Medivac can protect team from weapons for 4 seconds.

For me there are good tanks which can endure battle for a long term and others that cant..
If you ask me all tanks must have at least 1 good ability to go till end of game.. (with a purpose)
I can open a thread for this also soon.

Tanks above can do a real benefit for team. A team with 4 titan can easily be defeated by a team with 3 titan +1 antigrav. This does not mean an Antigrav is stronger than a Titan. It does a support role. It cannot kill a titan alone...

I really love to see 2 strongest enemies buying titan when i am hunter. If 1 goes for Sky fortress or Infernal, then my hunter is totally useless.
In a balanced and colorful game, all tanks must have a role. So game must not be monotone such as all infernalls or all titans etc..

[Kesarion]

Wow, that was a nice post horse, I think you just ended the subject for now. Maybe some change will happen later though.

[BENNIE.FM]

i still think tank is overopowerd for how much gold you buy it for 9k seems to little 10-11 is good
@qweq most tanks over 9k are mana whores

[Althend]

i still think tank is overopowerd for how much gold you buy it for 9k seems to little 10-11 is good
@qweq most tanks over 9k are mana whores

Addin to that, I would add another problem: the sky tank.
It cost 8k... and zeppelin 4,5k. Going from zep to sky is a waste of money.
If we increase hunter's price to 9,5-10k then we must increase prize of sky tank (and his power)

Currently, tiers 3 tanks lack of air. sky is something is like tiers 2.5....

[horselance]

Wow, that was a nice post horse, I think you just ended the subject for now. Maybe some change will happen later though.

Tnx
I will open a subject for tanks which becomes useless in a short time after buying.

@Bennie
Bigest problem is there is no good air tank in game currently (excluding SF though it dont belong to Hunter's timeline) and Hunter is a real ground shaker..

[Prog]

Wow, that was a nice post horse, I think you just ended the subject for now. Maybe some change will happen later though.

Tnx
I will open a subject for tanks which becomes useless in a short time after buying.

@Bennie
Bigest problem is there is no good air tank in game currently (excluding SF though it dont belong to Hunter's timeline) and Hunter is a real ground shaker..

Can you send me your battletanks version, becouse in mine there are really good air tanks for 4,5k and 8k as well. ; )

Addin to that, I would add another problem: the sky tank.
It cost 8k... and zeppelin 4,5k. Going from zep to sky is a waste of money.

In some cases that's true, but not in general. The sky tank skills are much more powerfull against ground, therefore going from zep to sky can be really good.

Adding to that, those tanks are the best tanks for going straight to inf/sky fort. It's really easy to play with air ship/sky tank even if the other players already got hunter/demon/frost. Also air ship and sky tank are (maybe together with goblin tank) the best tanks to teleport from mid to side lanes and two of the most played tanks in private clangames on northrend.