Tinker Ultimate

[DerSatan]

I wanted to discuss the ultimate of the tinker again. i think the healing effect of this small factory is just too weak to mention overall. nobody plays a tinker with 3 or 4 gold hulls. the factory does wuite well as damage tanker, but i think thats not what it was supposed to be, and it is strange that the tinker has such a close combat ability.

so my suggestion is:

split the "build tower" ability of the tinker into one standard ability and the ultimate.


standard ability:

Build Cannon Tower

first three levels remain the same, last two levels just create better cannon towers.


ultimate:

Build Laser Tower

level 1/2 creates a laser tower which you would build with the current ability on level 4/5.
level 3,4 and 5 would create even better laser towers.



why is this useful:

-the tinker is the tower builder. he is not a fighter himself.
-the "build tower" ability is the only ability in BT which changes greatly from one level to the next.
-you would still get to build the laser tower from tinker level 10, no change here. second laser tower level on tinker level 13 means no change as well.
-with a high level (uncommon that tinkers stay that long), you can build better towers than you can now. this makes up for the fact that tinker towers cannot benefit from the troop ugrades.


other impacts:

-with level 10 or more, you can set 2 (different) towers at once to start holding a position. however, you cannot boost both of them that well with your repair skill (can target only one) and repair module (cooldown).
-easy to implement
-easy to understand
-easy to balance

[horselance]

Well what about the 40 food limit? It can only build 5 towers at once. If tinker must make a choice he chooses lasers and cannons level 4-5 will be useless. I mean one of the skills will be useless. Making the food limit 80 wont make difference because he will build 10 laser towers or 10 cannon towers.
Maybe this can be solved by 5 cannon + 5 laser but it would be too much... Think there can be 3 tinkers in games. Spliting 3+2 would be too cruel. 3 cannon towers wont stand too much until tinker gets lvl10.

I dont know how it can be solved..

Edit:

Hey this was my 100th post

[RedNova]

Why not keep the tower skill as is and implement in place of ultimate a "booster" tower?
That tower should boost the effectiveness of other towers (like a building only aura) and maybe even creeps and TANKS at a higher level (about 4-5).
It should cost more however, like twice (8) the amount of a normal tower (hence, 4 towers max if an ulti tower is built).

Other proposition, why not a repair skill like the guard, only more effective (or a set point healing, instead of %), and that can target buildings as well.

[DerSatan]

why not a repair skill like the guard, only more effective

because the guard costs 5000 gold, and the tinker is for free.


thats the point. find an ultimate which fits to the tinker playing style (towering/defending), but dont make it imba (he costs 0 gold). additionally, the ultimate should still be useful. its really difficult to find a proper solution to that, i suggested one which i think is possible.

[horselance]

How about a skill like Tower Modules alike (in meaning of usage - Spell book) that will let tinker to build a variety of things. eg: hyperspace breaker, detector ,barricade. Barricade will slow enemy from taking cp unlike Tinker Tower, like normal barricade... And will have more hp than towers do. And a limit of 3. I think spell book can have seperate cooldowns... Yes it does, i remembered now.

[Tribulation]

That sounds a little imba; an exploder, for instance, has problems with leveling anyway, so he'd be screwed if a tinker who camped behind his towers and leveled just fine could build a hyperspace breaker. And barricade? That thing is hard to defeat in the early stage of the game, but it's expensive, so having that for free from a tinker appears to be too much.

[horselance]

In fact a rocket tower cost 1500 gold where barricade cost only 850. And it will not be as strong as normal barricade and wont take the advantages of Armor upgrades. And cannot carry modules or items.

Hyperspace braker really boring if you are an exploder. But it doesnt matter how you get it, it counters explosive tactic anyway.
This Hyperspace breaker can be different from normal ones. Lasting 1 minute and cooldown of 80 seconds maybe. So he cannot have a Hyperspace all the time.

[Visjeplus]

Well maybe change the ultimate to a tinkerer being able to build one pillbox/sandbag bunker/ditch (sandbag wall) in which creeps can take place when they pas the bunker and become entrenched (maybe an armor and Hp bonus and they become the tinkerers color and so their kills give gold), this 'bunker' will not be able to be destroyed until the creeps in it have been killed (and as new troops pas the bunker, it will fill up again), and will not be attacked by siege creeps...... O and maybe even the creeps inside it will be magic immune (AoE skill immune) but maybe this will be to imba (hard to balance)

I don't yet know what to do with very long ranged weapons (none building attacking weapons) and how this can be programmed in the game but maybe its an idea.

Visjeplus

[DerSatan]

nice that no single guy posted a comment about the suggestion i made.

this thread wasnt supposed to be a try to get the most-tinker-ultimate-change-ideas record. so instead of posting new ideas over and over again and leave every idea without comment, just think about the ideas already posted.


thanks.

[Durka_Jihad]

I completely agree with you that the two towers needs to be split up. Im a big fan of the rocket tower, As well as having the ability to put down two towers at once when you hit level 10 would be really helpful.

[horselance]

Horselance wrote:
Well what about the 40 food limit? It can only build 5 towers at once. If tinker must make a choice he chooses lasers and cannons level 4-5 will be useless. I mean one of the skills will be useless. Making the food limit 80 wont make difference because he will build 10 laser towers or 10 cannon towers.
Maybe this can be solved by 5 cannon + 5 laser but it would be too much... Think there can be 3 tinkers in games. Spliting 3+2 would be too cruel. 3 cannon towers wont stand too much until tinker gets lvl10.

I dont know how it can be solved..

My posts are invisible or what? None read my post i think...
If there will be a split plz solve this puzzle first. The biggest problem would be this.

[Visjeplus]

Oke let me react to you suggestion dersatan. I must say I like it. It will give the tinkerer a better viability to remain in game a little longer as it will be easier to start building at a new location, and getting rid of the factory as it’s not really that good (yes it’s a 0 gold tank). But I find that I always like the tinkerer (even though I don’t play it a lot) to remain in a team.

But of course for every tactic there is a counter, like teleport breakers against exploders. And that’s why I wanted to suggest a creep-bunker as ultimate as I find that the siege pack is a very big counter vs a tinkerer, it almost makes the tinkerer useless and I don’t want the siege pack to be changed.

But back to your suggestion, maybe make the 2 different towers less similar. So change the stats of the rocket tower after level 3 to a high range low damage tower and make the laser tower a lower range high Hp high damage tower. So to give the tinkerer a choice of towering tactics.

And if this is going to be too much balancing, maybe refrain from changing the range, but have the rocket tower as a high Hp tower and the laser tower as a high damage tower. Maybe even give the rocket tower a little slow factory capturing ability, I emphasize on little.

[kittyonmyfoot]

nice that no single guy posted a comment about the suggestion i made.

this thread wasnt supposed to be a try to get the most-tinker-ultimate-change-ideas record. so instead of posting new ideas over and over again and leave every idea without comment, just think about the ideas already posted.


thanks.

kk... don't like... for the other reasons posted

As it stands with the factory you can go to a hot zone and fix a tower or repair one you're building to get it up faster. Also trying to take a CP from a tanking tinker is a b*tch. Had a tink kill 3 mates by pocket factory-ing by the CP and praying. Course he was screwed on the respawn because of the cooldown.

[Gammagulp]

Is it possible to give the Laser Tower Ultimate the ability of generating foodcapacity?
So if you get Lvl 10 you have maybe 45 Foodlimit, at level 13 - Ulti2 = 50 and so on ? :?:

[Vomitus]

Is it possible to give the Laser Tower Ultimate the ability of generating foodcapacity?
So if you get Lvl 10 you have maybe 45 Foodlimit, at level 13 - Ulti2 = 50 and so on ? :?:

You mean, limitless towers for tinker? Did I understand you right?

As for this idea, let's make a suggestion: Ultimate will make able to build a 'Farm' that will increase food limit for Tinker. You can have only one such Farm. And this Farm last some period of time so Tinker will have to rebuild it every time.
If a Farm is destroyed/expired and number of your towers exceed normal food limit - towers, that were built most earlier get destroyed one by one until food usage will be in the limit.
A Farm would give 5-10 food per skill level.
It will last for 1-5 minutes(balance).
Cooldown will be about 30 seconds or even 0(considering 1 Farm limit).
Farm build time could be 0 or 30-40 seconds.

Making 1 minute lasting, 40 seconds cooldown and instant build time would make a game more dynamic for Tinker. Because in this case Tinker should build this Farm not far from the firing line - somewhere near his towers so he could always rebuild it in time.

_Edit:
As for your suggestion, DerSatan, someone here was right: one skill will be useless after lvl 10. The only usage of splitting would be fast towering(build two towers at once instead of one), however you'll prefer to change canon towers to laser ones later.

[kittyonmyfoot]

The only usage of splitting would be fast towering(build two towers at once instead of one), however you'll prefer to change canon towers to laser ones later.

I wouldn't mind a refresh cooldown's button. It also wouldn't bother me if it worked on items. fast towers, fast mines, fast orbital controls... meh could get out of hand but could also be easily managed with a lengthy cooldown. Would definitely make the tinker more offensive with the right gearing. Course... double the modules in towers would be hella bad for digging >.<

[JpOO]

Maybe skill that makes copy of friendly tank? Tanks looks completely like normal but takes 5000% more dmg and do not attack. And cant take CP. Isnt is useless? ^^ Maybe if it will have short cooldown.. duno.

[kittyonmyfoot]

Maybe skill that makes copy of friendly tank? Tanks looks completely like normal but takes 5000% more dmg and do not attack. And cant take CP. Isnt is useless? ^^ Maybe if it will have short cooldown.. duno.

Ha... let's play spot the real exploder on the mini-map 0.o ... Also given that the explosives can go on any tank... I may just use it on myself and not bother with the exploder.

[JpOO]

Ha... let's play spot the real exploder on the mini-map 0.o ... Also given that the explosives can go on any tank... I may just use it on myself and not bother with the exploder.

m? Illusion cant carry itms or make dmg. Its like BM illusion skill. I'm so bad at eng.. =*(

[Vomitus]

m? Illusion cant carry itms or make dmg. Its like BM illusion skill. I'm so bad at eng.. =*(

Illusion will have an illusion of items that spell target had at cast. Moreover I don't think it will be so useful because real exploder usually uses teleport to make his job done. The only usage for exploder will be to gain 50% protection against enemy's long range skill that tend to kill you from safety.
What is to another tanks - if an illusion will be controlled by Tinker - it will be not much use of it(unless Tinker plays well to control it well). And if an illusion is controlled by a target that it is put on - it could become imba(it's a shield that effectively boosts your hp by two times).
Also this implementation need to simulate fake weapon fire so an illusion could be real illusion so it would be hard to determine who is real. This adds significant complexity in realization of such feature as well.

Conclusion: As I think this idea is pretty good I don't think it will be easy to create and balance it. Unfortunately...