Balance Issues with Flying Tanks

[psycodiver]

Hey,

Unsure if this belongs here or in the bugs section as it is a balance issue.
This has been a known issue for ~2 years.

This balance issue effect the following flying tanks:
- Helicopter
- Medivac
- Air Ship
- Sky Tank

It does not affect Sky Fortress becasue of it's speed & cost.

The combination of speed boost which most have as a passive and the ability to fly makes these tanks too overpowered for ground tanks to compete with.
This is particularly true with Air Ship.
There are too many games where every player (10) goes Medivac or Helicopter fist then upgrades to Airship.
And you really have no choice but to choose Air Ship if your in a serious game.

My suggestions to fix this problem:
- 2x gold cost for the affected tanks.
OR
- minus 50% speed and minus 50% hit points.

These balance changes are fair considering that these tanks make every other tank absolutely unplayable in a serious game.
Another idea is to just remove flying tanks completly from the game until they become fairly balanced.

Once these air tanks have been nerfed it will make other tanks playable.

[Althend]

The only one that maybe unbalanced is the heli ^_^

And you really have no choice but to choose Air Ship if your in a serious game.

Not true.

[TKF]

Yeah, helicopter cost 1k and has 2 stun abilities vs ground and cuz of it its too much stun.


Otherwise I find the air tanks more or less balanced, actually they might sometimes struggle against ground tanks, but their greatest advantage is their superior mobility which is sometimes a nuisance for groundbound vehicles.

[ssl]

My suggestions to fix this problem:
- 2x gold cost for the affected tanks.
OR
- minus 50% speed and minus 50% hit points.

Waaaaaay exaggerated...
Imagine Airship with 2k HP and speed of less than creeps!

[psycodiver]

Waaaaaay exaggerated...

Yeah maybe it is.
Perhaps just targeting their speed and either gold cost or hit points.
Definatly their speed needs a nerf.

[eSVau]

How about decreasing rotation speed (speed of changing directions) a little bit.

But i don't think there is a strong unbalance with air tanks - just a small advantages even so they have less HP compared to ground tanks, but HP items are cheaper than speed items

[Helge_F]

for the game speed would be better to increase the rotation of groundtanks i think

[LIoOoOoIL]

dont forget the "net" vs those air tanks, most dont pay that attention, which this item got... specially in the middle.
You are able to pick out 1 of your opponents, specially when u also have tanks with stun (of course not in the fist 10-15mins, cause its to expensive at this time) but it give u a high advantage if u use it smart..
And dont forget airtanks already have some disadvantages: a bit less hp, most no stun (heli got 2.. this tank is a bit overpowerd in beginning, and sky-fortress hold) but medivac-airship-skytank aint got stuns.
But for the speed abillity, its definettly a small advantage cause u can save the 3k gold for the speed item (with upgrade).

@psycodiver like 30% of your post is just false/crap, specially your suggestion...
"My suggestions to fix this problem:
- 2x gold cost for the affected tanks.
OR
- minus 50% speed and minus 50% hit points." dude 2x gold costs, seriously?

[psycodiver]

@psycodiver like 30% of your post is just false/crap, specially your suggestion...
"My suggestions to fix this problem:
- 2x gold cost for the affected tanks.
OR
- minus 50% speed and minus 50% hit points." dude 2x gold costs, seriously?

Yeah, I retracted this. Maybe just a moderate speed nerf is called for.

[progg]

No other option? Man, try goblin + net. It's the biggest air tanks killer i think.

[GEN_Schwarzkopf]

Could not agree more.

The air tanks get too much free speed up for the cost of the tank.

The cost of upgraded speed is 3000 gold.

The heli and air ship should not be able to speed up the equivalent of a 3000 speed up. The Sky Tank (8000) maybe, but not the Air Ship (4500), and definitely not the Heli. That's why we see players staying heli so long...speed with a stun. It's inbalanced.

I would suggest the level ups for heli and air ship are nerfed 50% to make it equivalent to the 1500 speed up at the very most. The Sky Tank is probably okay as is.

There should be no reason people stay Air Ship for until they have enough money for Infernal, which is what I've been seeing alot. They use their mobility to outfarm allies with serious ground tanks that have stuns. It's a first choice for stats whores.

- Rob

[UnifiedDoom]

Man I don't know why people argue that air tanks are imba because they have speed which is the same as a 3000 gold item. I mean just look at freaking tinker it has a teleport function with an equivilant price of 3000 gold for a normal tank, do I see people going tinker just so they can teleport? Teleporter is after all the most used mid to endgame item. Would tinker be worth -3000 gold because of this fact? of course not. How much is thunder arua worth? How about aiming missle? The point is you can't put a price on skills regardless of whether or not they have an item counterpart. It would take quite a lot of thinking to determine how much each is "worth," and it's hardly as simple as docking 3000 gold off the initial price just because a skill is supposedly worth 3000 gold.

[raven.ru]

Helicopter has 1 stun abilities.
Air imba vs earth robots.
Earth robots imba vs goblin tanks.
Goblin tanks imba vs air.
Balance.
Mobility isn't meaningful, if your control point is attacked by 4 opponents.
Demon tank specializes vs air. It is more expensive, than the Goblin tank, but not need net.

[Tynkywinky]

Helicopter has 1 stun abilities.

2 stun abilities.

Air imba vs earth robots.

Not true

Earth robots imba vs goblin tanks.
Earth robot is anti ground but doesn't mean that it's imba against gobling tanks.
[quote='raven.ru' pid='29585' dateline='1305955990']
Goblin tanks imba vs air.

Not nessesarily, depends on quite a lot.

Mobility isn't meaningful, if your control point is attacked by 4 opponents.

So where are your mates while the CP is being attacked by 4 opponents?

Demon tank specializes vs air. It is more expensive, than the Goblin tank, but not need net.

Again this depends on quite a lot, but net is always good. It's not always easy to get close at the air tank with demon tank.

[raven.ru]

I have read yours post and have come to a conclusion that in battle tanks you played only 1 game or didn't play in general

[wolfheart]

Most stupid thread ...

[Tynkywinky]

I have read yours post and have come to a conclusion that in battle tanks you played only 1 game or didn't play in general

My conclusion on u since u did not respond to my post is that you are a big noob.

Most stupid thread ...

What is that based on?

[raven.ru]

At the helicopter ONE stun ability - rocket.
The Earth robot doesn't have powerful stun spells and only 1 attacking spell.
Even if to catch air tank in a net and use earthquake, he all the same will easily run away - earth robot won't kill him for 3 seconds. Manoeuvrability of air tanks gives the chance to attack during the favourable moments and quickly to leave in case of danger.
Attacking spells goblin tank are useless against protective spells of the earth robot. +earthquake and goblin tank dead.
Air tanks don't have chances against super-power attacking spells of the goblin tank and 2,5 s stun. 3 s net + 2,5 s stun = 5,5 s fight - to escape it will not turn out. I play the goblin tank and air tanks for me - the easy mark.
Allies together with you protect cp. But air tanks should stand on a point and to protect it, they can't maneuver. Here are necessary mass damaging and stun spells, instead of speed.
Banish+lava shot+hell fire = dead air. No chance.

[LIoOoOoIL]

@raven.ru

At the helicopter ONE stun ability - rocket.

2 abilities - bombarment vs ground(net on air) stuns too

The Earth robot doesn't have powerful stun spells and only 1 attacking spell.

also he got 2 attacking spells, dustwave + earthquake(same for helis bombardment) since both make dmg on opponents

for the earth tank, air isnt imbalanced vs it. Cause this Tanks is in generell an antiground/Tanker(can compensate much dmg)-tank(of course air got advantages then) like the demon is abit more an antiair-tank (banish).
And earth vs gobbo (not imba too), if u use the gobbo tank abilities/and tp(what is a muss for this tank anyway) more clever, u also "can" escape/or kill an earth tank.

Its like u claim everything as "imba", and since u do this, its like u shouldn´t play bt at all cause everything seems imba then.
Every tank got dis/advantages vs others, stop call it imba.

i just can give u a bit right for the Net holding time (3secs), it give a high advantage for example the goblin tank/stun. Maybe there is a reduce needed.

[Helge_F]

u have to forgive raven, who is always playing heli+glaive/sell it get ice -> sell glaive back -> get hull -get gobo -later inf ?
so he cant know other tanks and abilities, even the ground stun from heli ^^

btw: everythin is imba, so its ure decision wich imba tanks an weapons u will buy