Incentive ideas to buy better tanks in game

[ckibibi]

Hi,

As It seems some people dont change tanks in game soon enough, maybe it would be good to encourage players to get better tanks sooner in game instead of blindly buy weapons or big hull.

Btanks is a moba where your "hero" (tank) is something you can change during game and it is one of the most important things to do. But I think it is weird that some T1 tanks can sustain for some long time T2 or T3 tanks mainly because of hull.

So here 2 ideas to encourage the change of tanks :

First change the hulls : instead of a fixed hp bonus ( 1000, 2000 and 4000 if I get it right) + fixed hp bonus upgrade (+500,+1000,+2000)
you can have hull with a fix hp bonus like : 1000hp and a ratio bonus of max hp like 10% or 20%

for exemple : u have for light tank 1000HP + 1000HP (from hull) + 200hp (=20% of 1000HP)
for heavy tank : 5000HP (i dont know the exact value) + 1000HP (from hull) + 1000HP (20% of 5000HP)

the idea is to have a fix value to help starting strat counter : vs lr 1000 HP is a good help to survive or to kill.
but also to prevent some T1 tanks having double hull or hull that multiply their hp by 6 and that can have same amount of hp than an heavy tank.or a T2 tank.
and to reward the bought of better tank : the ratio bonus hp will be more efficient as your tank grow.


Second idea is maybe too extreme : it is to prevent T1 tank to level up reaching a certain level like max level for T1 tank is 12 or 13. (the same can be done for T2 : lvl 18)

reason for this suggestion is that most of spells of Tanks dont scale with the game as it reaches a certain time ( never see the ulti from light or heli at level 4 or 5 being usefull in a fight) like others spells T2 tanks that dont help much when fighting higher T3 or T4 tanks.

the idea is mainly to "force" people to buy new tanks and to so those players can better help the team.so I know its not a very good idea. I also know some rare spells scale maybe too good with game antigrav ulti or medivac ulti.




Thanks,

[gozo1985]

i agree with the main idea behind it but not with your suggestions. i prefer something like getting back 100% (or close to) costs of a tank instead of only the half. have to say that i havent thought about the negative aspects right now.
but some positive things are:

- more tanks are played instead of many people just playing starter to hight tier tanks
- funny/strategic things may happen if you want to counter a tank and also getting re-countered
- game duration shortening

[eSVau]

i agree with the main idea behind it but not with your suggestions. i prefer something like getting back 100% (or close to) costs of a tank instead of only the half. have to say that i havent thought about the negative aspects right now.
but some positive things are:

- more tanks are played instead of many people just playing starter to hight tier tanks
- funny/strategic things may happen if you want to counter a tank and also getting re-countered
- game duration shortening

Quite an appealing idea but 100% would be too much, people would random and get their preferred tank afterwards. But i could think of 75% or so.

[Max]

Well if 100% it is, random have no point anymore (I still like the idea).
I don't see a reason why not giving more gold by selling tanks.

[Prog]

Seems like streamlining tankchoices. I don't like that.

[Exodus]

I don't really get the problem here. As a matter of fact, I encourage this. Some tanks and skills have been specifically designed to be useful until lategame. I did this so players have different strategic possibilities. Otherwise you'd always go the same route, buy the same items and tanks.
Buying better tanks is already more efficient than buying hulls, since you not only gain more HP, but also more powerful skills and you don't sacrifice an item slot for that.

[EarthR]

the main problem is that a good player will play good with any tank and a bad player will play bad with any tank so forcing someone to change tank wont result in them playing any better imo. You can see that in many games where the tanks many players change to are just wrong. A bad player doesnt consider what the enemy or a teamate has and just buys the tank that he thinks is good even though its clearly a bad choice, have seen players buying sky when enemy had 2 demons with the only reason "i am good with it". there is no way a t1 tank can sustain a higher tier tank if you dont have some skills and even then it all comes down to who uses the tank.

[gozo1985]

Buying better tanks is already more efficient than buying hulls, since you not only gain more HP, but also more powerful skills and you don't sacrifice an item slot for that.

!!!!! Lets take this quote and put it into the Loading Screen !!!!!!

[stibi-]

i've been in love with -tmono
makes the game way more interesting

[ckibibi]

Buying better tanks is already more efficient than buying hulls, since you not only gain more HP, but also more powerful skills and you don't sacrifice an item slot for that.

!!!!! Lets take this quote and put it into the Loading Screen !!!!!!

Indeed what seems obvious when you know the game is not for some players. (And I am not talking about troll helis).

the main problem is this one :
you got T1 tanks with ~1kHP
you got 5kgold to buy stuff
obviously you need hp and 2 choices for that :
buying new tank
or buying hull

for 5k gold u got 4k hp bonus => ~5khp
for 5k gold + your heli (sold) you can buy heavy tank => ~5khp

so the 2 choices are the same regarding HP.

And some players dont consider the bonus in tanks spell as you can do good without skills and some weapons. (and probably dont know how to handle the spells properly)

Problem wiht this kind of thinkings is when you need teamplay : defending cps or ganking or capturing cps.

when all spells are cast in 2, 3 sec a team with T2 tanks will most of the time be at huge advantage compare to teams with 2 or 3 T1 tanks with hulls. (you dont do much dammage with a T1 tank when your dead in 2 or 3 sec, but the spells do instant dammage).

The idea is really that players starts to play more with all tanks and learn the spells.


an heli or raider or antigrav can surely do good until inf cames into play. But imo it is better to spend gold on tanks than hulls (or weapons for the lr strategy that requires less hp maybe).

Seems like streamlining tankchoices. I don't like that.

I dont get what you mean by that ?
maybe I am wrong but I see the different values of tanks as the main stream of the game : first time I played this game I understand it was basicly light tank to heavy tank to infernal or frost robot (depending on your side) and because it was called btanks. For me you got more advantages in changing tanks than buying items. and I think now you have a large choice to changes tanks (even if there are popular ones and somes a little bit disregarded).

I dont think playing T1 tanks (ie tanks <3k gold ) to buy a 9k or 10k + gold tank as the best (good?) move (for a team play game).

and still imo it is possible because hulls can be stacks and gold hull give enough hp to stand against T2 tanks for the same price. A T1 tank with 10khp is strange regarding the game and the teamplay of a team.

as for the fact pointed by Exodus : " slot free", well at this state of the game you dont have the money to have a full build on the slots. (of course you can like 6 minor weapons or 4 minor weapons + speed + random item you like or consumables).

gozo1985 Wrote: i agree with the main idea behind it but not with your suggestions. i prefer something like getting back 100% (or close to) costs of a tank instead of only the half. have to say that i havent thought about the negative aspects right now.
but some positive things are:

- more tanks are played instead of many people just playing starter to hight tier tanks
- funny/strategic things may happen if you want to counter a tank and also getting re-countered
- game duration shortening ExclamationSleepy

Quite an appealing idea but 100% would be too much, people would random and get their preferred tank afterwards. But i could think of 75% or so.

This might help people to try handling tanks instead of relying on weapons too much.

[eSVau]

i've been in love with -tmono
makes the game way more interesting

agreed

[griffin1987]

TL;DR: Mostly agree with exodus ; regarding the more-gold-for-tanks idea: how about putting sold tanks into junk (placeholder gold-box - from a scripting point it sounds doable to me)?

---
Long version:

Disregarding the tank monopoly mode: Not always is picking the tank over the hull the better choice. For example, you could switch to goblin shredder from heli or get a steel hull - problem is, you lose mobility.

Also, the cost comparison isn't fair: If you buy a gold hull, you can keep it till the end if you like to, and if not, someone else can buy it for cheaper, also reducing the lost money. But with a tank the money is just lost, because there is no junk for tanks (maybe should be added? like, have a fake item, probably in a different color (I've seen colored gold boxes in other maps, so it's possible) in junk, which would make you switch tank)

Another thing to consider: When you play heli and drop the hull, you heal much faster than with a heavy for example, which can be a big advantage in some situations.

Also, heli is not as easy to click than heavy, which really was a problem for me for several months (even on my 27 inch display stuff gets rather small at 5k zoom, and especially hard to click when you have creeps around it as well and maybe health bar displayed)

So, it's not ALWAYS good to get the bigger tank, but I would agree that most of the time people get stuff instead of a bigger tank, the tank would have been the better choice.

I also don't think people get how the junk yard works - I see people with hulls asking for ups and then buying their tank without selling a hull all the time. It's just dumb - you could instead sell your hull, do some ups yourself, and get the new tank. You would still have more hp than before and can rebuy the hull for the same price you sold it.

Back on topic: Why do you think max level for tier 1 tank is lvl 13? Distributor for example can still kick ass vs titans if played right (especially the ulti), medivac can be used way longer due to ulti, and antigrav ulti is also usable very long (though, I must admit, antigrav starts to suck way sooner IMHO)

Scaling spells vs non scaling spells is a problem either way imho - for example antigrav shift does not scale itself, but scales in terms of gameplay: You can still shift a titan the same way you can shift a tinker. Then there are skills like the bombardment of the heli, which becomes rather pointless later on. And the other side are skills like the creeps of the ghost tank, which have been changed a couple of times, but probably will never be balanced, because the creeps upgrade for free with the force level. (Yes I know you wrote some of the examples yourself, was just to illustrate better)

Anyway, I agree with exodus about 90% on this one, with the exception that some spells seem to scale toooo well into lategame to me (ghost tank creeps for example, but that's my oppinion)

[gozo1985]

tanks in junkyard seems a cool feature but is not productive at all i guess.

example: thunder tank is saving for bigger tank, teamate gobbo farmed well and buys infernal after like 1h. changing from thunder to gobbo after one hour is a bit a fail maybe, even if its a cheaper gobbo. spending 4875 (75% of gobbo worth) just to make a small step... please NO!

the idea itself might be ok, but therefor some other cash rules for tanks in junkyard should be considered.

[griffin1987]

spending 4875 (75% of gobbo worth) just to make a small step... please NO!

4875 - 2000 from thunder tank = 2875. And yeah, it would probably need more diverse tank choices to be useful in a team, which, imho, is a good thing. 1h thunder to demon would be a better example I guess - also don't forget that by the current junk rules the original owner gets back money when you buy from him.

Anyway, was just an idea, am not so sure about it myself right now, but I can't really say either without seeing it in action I guess