2008-12-23, 00:42:57
"The pack (or radar + defuser) shouldn't enable a player to counter 15K of items AND get money for it too, it's too much of an advantage."
Yes, a 1-2K item should be able to counter 15K of items, however, there should be atleast some counter to that 15K of items, but right now there is none.
Atm, there is no counter to mines, except the defuser, which cannot keep up with a player with 3 mines. So either there should be a limit of 1 mine per player or there should be advanced defusers of similar cost that would allow you to counter massing of mines. (or make the current defuser better vs massing of mines but weaker vs just a few mines)
One common scenario that I encounter and often use against others is to start out with a demolisher (with bow or whatever) and to creep / mine mid early. These mines will slowly get me killls and cover a larger and larger area, later i might get the 2500 mines and mine mid even faster. Now the enemy has 3 options, they can either not get mine defusers (in which case my mines will continue to get me kills, the mine field will continue to grow and they will pretty much be unable to get to the middle shop), they can get hulls and tanks with lots of health and try to destroy them by running them over (which will probably give me a few kills when they make a wrong turn and as they dedicated resources to health, they have less dps which means less kills), or they can get defusers.
In the case of the 3rd option, this is a worse case application for defusers; there are masses of weak mines and as the defuser has a low aoe it is strong vs a few powerful mines but weak vs masses of weak mines. If only 1 opponent gets a defuser, the demolisher + 2500 mines can probably mine at the same rate if not faster than the mines are destroyed. Only if multiple enemy players dedicate themselves to defusing can the mines be destroyed faster than they are created. In this scenario I would usually simply sell the 2500 mines and buy a new tank. At this point i would have wasted only 1250 from buying and selling the mines (which would easily be made up for by the kills they obtained), i would still have a mine field that could give me potential kills and i would have forced my oppnents to use up some of their inventory slots and 2250 per mine defuser with radar (which become useless once the mines are gone and only increase enemy bounty).
So one major problem with mine defusers is that if you get one (which costs about the same as the 2500 mines if you include the radar) is that the enemy can simply stop going mines in which case they would have gained gold from the kills the mines got them (while you get nothing) and you would be left with a useless item. This is why I would suggest giving defusers another ability such as the ability to stun or defuser tp breakers.
And as for those who suggest mine defusers can pay themselves back by killing others with their own mines, I suggest that is near impossible unless you are against total noobs as: 1. non-noobs tend to move around alot, making it difficult to hit them with a small aoe mine defuser when they are on top of one of their own mines, this is especially true if you are not host had have a 0.1+ second delay. 2. both the radar and the defuser have a short range so you will have to be close to the enemy to see where their mines are and use the defuser. If the enemy goes long range they will tend to avoid you making it that much harder to get to them, meaning that if you use it on someone with long range you will probably get hit by their weapons and be outside protection from your creeps.
Yes, a 1-2K item should be able to counter 15K of items, however, there should be atleast some counter to that 15K of items, but right now there is none.
Atm, there is no counter to mines, except the defuser, which cannot keep up with a player with 3 mines. So either there should be a limit of 1 mine per player or there should be advanced defusers of similar cost that would allow you to counter massing of mines. (or make the current defuser better vs massing of mines but weaker vs just a few mines)
One common scenario that I encounter and often use against others is to start out with a demolisher (with bow or whatever) and to creep / mine mid early. These mines will slowly get me killls and cover a larger and larger area, later i might get the 2500 mines and mine mid even faster. Now the enemy has 3 options, they can either not get mine defusers (in which case my mines will continue to get me kills, the mine field will continue to grow and they will pretty much be unable to get to the middle shop), they can get hulls and tanks with lots of health and try to destroy them by running them over (which will probably give me a few kills when they make a wrong turn and as they dedicated resources to health, they have less dps which means less kills), or they can get defusers.
In the case of the 3rd option, this is a worse case application for defusers; there are masses of weak mines and as the defuser has a low aoe it is strong vs a few powerful mines but weak vs masses of weak mines. If only 1 opponent gets a defuser, the demolisher + 2500 mines can probably mine at the same rate if not faster than the mines are destroyed. Only if multiple enemy players dedicate themselves to defusing can the mines be destroyed faster than they are created. In this scenario I would usually simply sell the 2500 mines and buy a new tank. At this point i would have wasted only 1250 from buying and selling the mines (which would easily be made up for by the kills they obtained), i would still have a mine field that could give me potential kills and i would have forced my oppnents to use up some of their inventory slots and 2250 per mine defuser with radar (which become useless once the mines are gone and only increase enemy bounty).
So one major problem with mine defusers is that if you get one (which costs about the same as the 2500 mines if you include the radar) is that the enemy can simply stop going mines in which case they would have gained gold from the kills the mines got them (while you get nothing) and you would be left with a useless item. This is why I would suggest giving defusers another ability such as the ability to stun or defuser tp breakers.
And as for those who suggest mine defusers can pay themselves back by killing others with their own mines, I suggest that is near impossible unless you are against total noobs as: 1. non-noobs tend to move around alot, making it difficult to hit them with a small aoe mine defuser when they are on top of one of their own mines, this is especially true if you are not host had have a 0.1+ second delay. 2. both the radar and the defuser have a short range so you will have to be close to the enemy to see where their mines are and use the defuser. If the enemy goes long range they will tend to avoid you making it that much harder to get to them, meaning that if you use it on someone with long range you will probably get hit by their weapons and be outside protection from your creeps.
