2009-09-24, 14:27:39
Exactly that Tier 2,3,4 list althend mentioned is not true in my opinion. Sky Tank is in 4 stage strategies no T3 tank and demon isn't one most of the times as well. You mistake the role the sky tank actually plays in my opinion. Exodus seems to see it in a similar way:
Some problems about your system of classify T1-4 (which made me get rid of such a rigid system):
2 of your T3 tanks (sky tank, demon) can't handle T4 at all, some can handle parts, but not titans. This makes me want to split T4 into skyfort/inf and Titan. So we got T1-5 now and we see the problem of this system: The norm of this Tier-System is a 5 stage strategy, but most people nowadays play 4 stages. It doesn't fit to the game as it is played. Your T3 is quite often just skipped, or sky fort/inf ( the T4 without Titan) are skipped by frosts. We need more flexible Tier-Systems in my opinion, that's why i suggest(ed) to change it into a tank-change based one. The gain is that we reach a basis for analysing different strategies way better, as for example 3 stage builds don't fit into your Tier-System, but they do in mine and they are played in internal games (Heli->sky fort/inf->titan; notice that this is even the favourite build of some skilled players http://forum.btanks.net/viewtopic.php?f=...9&start=11).
If we get away from such a rigid system of Tier 1-4 problems will resolve, as the problem "there needs to be a tank in Tx about y k gold" just doesn't exist any more. (->the "bad positioning" of the sky tank doesn't exist any more) The tanks are the basis and the Tiers are constructed by the use, the strategies around those tanks. The Tanks are not based on Tiers, the Tiers are based on the Tanks and their use!
Btw: "sky tank + 5k hull can hardly handle frost" is just false. Sky tank can handle frost well in most cases, it's especially easy if the frosts use short range weapons like they do in most cases.
@Exo: I get your point and I agree that it won't be easy, but take a look 1k gold lower: The skytank got aoe abilities with fixed values, tho without slow. Why shouldn't it be possible to take the slow into consideration and set the damage accordingly? But it might be better to deal someway else, becouse "it's rather important, that there is a possibility to break through a wall of massive HP tanks, which would normally take a long fight, after which both sides are forced to go back and heal.". I didn't think of that in this way before, but I think you're right that there should be a good way to deal with massive HP tanks other then playing the same tanks. As you mentioned some other ways of nerfing, I'd go for the channeling, becouse it's the way in which the nerf is based on the reaction of the opponents.
@horse: Why do I (and a lot other skilled players i know) do quite well with Air Ship in late game even against frost if it's not good for fighting better tanks? Your statement somehow contradicts with the experience from the games I play in.
Btw: I don't want all tanks to be useable in late game, but most to be useable till armor requirements and that's true right now in my opinion (3 stage heli build for example).
Exodus Wrote:The role is different (from T3). If seen with more variable Tier-classes it's mostly a T 2 or T 2,5 (in 5 stage strats) flying anti ground tank and plays this role really well.Quote:This just means for me, that your list does not quite reflect the real ingame situation. Every tank is designed to play a certain role and imo Sky Tanks plays his role as an anti ground and (kinda) anit building tank quite good.
Some problems about your system of classify T1-4 (which made me get rid of such a rigid system):
2 of your T3 tanks (sky tank, demon) can't handle T4 at all, some can handle parts, but not titans. This makes me want to split T4 into skyfort/inf and Titan. So we got T1-5 now and we see the problem of this system: The norm of this Tier-System is a 5 stage strategy, but most people nowadays play 4 stages. It doesn't fit to the game as it is played. Your T3 is quite often just skipped, or sky fort/inf ( the T4 without Titan) are skipped by frosts. We need more flexible Tier-Systems in my opinion, that's why i suggest(ed) to change it into a tank-change based one. The gain is that we reach a basis for analysing different strategies way better, as for example 3 stage builds don't fit into your Tier-System, but they do in mine and they are played in internal games (Heli->sky fort/inf->titan; notice that this is even the favourite build of some skilled players http://forum.btanks.net/viewtopic.php?f=...9&start=11).
If we get away from such a rigid system of Tier 1-4 problems will resolve, as the problem "there needs to be a tank in Tx about y k gold" just doesn't exist any more. (->the "bad positioning" of the sky tank doesn't exist any more) The tanks are the basis and the Tiers are constructed by the use, the strategies around those tanks. The Tanks are not based on Tiers, the Tiers are based on the Tanks and their use!
Btw: "sky tank + 5k hull can hardly handle frost" is just false. Sky tank can handle frost well in most cases, it's especially easy if the frosts use short range weapons like they do in most cases.
@Exo: I get your point and I agree that it won't be easy, but take a look 1k gold lower: The skytank got aoe abilities with fixed values, tho without slow. Why shouldn't it be possible to take the slow into consideration and set the damage accordingly? But it might be better to deal someway else, becouse "it's rather important, that there is a possibility to break through a wall of massive HP tanks, which would normally take a long fight, after which both sides are forced to go back and heal.". I didn't think of that in this way before, but I think you're right that there should be a good way to deal with massive HP tanks other then playing the same tanks. As you mentioned some other ways of nerfing, I'd go for the channeling, becouse it's the way in which the nerf is based on the reaction of the opponents.
@horse: Why do I (and a lot other skilled players i know) do quite well with Air Ship in late game even against frost if it's not good for fighting better tanks? Your statement somehow contradicts with the experience from the games I play in.
Btw: I don't want all tanks to be useable in late game, but most to be useable till armor requirements and that's true right now in my opinion (3 stage heli build for example).