2010-01-22, 04:58:45
Kheg those ad-hominem attacks on me are not helping your case.
Ad hominems are one thing but you blatantly posted false information in an attempt to argue with me. What is more incorrect? Exactly what you did.
Elitism is exactly what is surfacing when you act like such a hypocrite. Cry more about being "insulted", it has absolutely no value in terms of the edit I'm proposing. Suppose someone else posted a similar topic? Suppose it likely gets closed. Does this mean all my insulting and the like stops the change from happening? Hmm that doesn't sound fair now does it? Let's suppose someone did that with an HB debate, all future topics get closed due to redundancy. So clearly whether I swear alot in my posts means nothing. What matters is the essence of the topic.
I see people mentioning medivac, a cheaper tank. Clearly a better tank than catapult since its ultimate allows it invulnerability. 2 medivacs are better than 2 demos hands down. People play medivac even late game with hulls. I don't see how catapult shot disrupts this balance. If anything it balances it more because of medivac's distinct advantage - ultimate.
People who are opposing this idea will try to come up with new ideas, but none of them recently have said anything in terms of the other tanks it might affect other than focusing on the helicopter as I have. There is lane switching. People do that all the time. Of all the air tanks, only the helicopter gets discussed. This is only representative of how closed-minded the posters here are. They are not interested in exploring or analyzing anything much more than what the original poster has said. They debate other thinks like semantics rather than the game and its balance.
BTW whoever said a ground tank can't retreat against a demo is making a false statement. A person who is obstructed and has 1 place to go gets hit. A helicopter is free to fly anywhere unobstructed and can go left or right at their own will and can easily evade being hit. A demo shot is not a sure thing if a person is aware of the fact they could be hit. Don't try to argue against this point because the teleporter is a bigger issue than this one skill. It's about game/map awareness (if you die it is your own fault), and the balance is fine. Go pick demo and demonstrate to us that you can hit several shots in a row with success in killing a tank, then we'll talk. Oh and bring the replay because I'll want to discuss the "helicopter" factor in that game as well. Goona do it?
and kingshonors: sure every skill isn't acceptable to be changed to hit all air. I'm not asking for this. I have outlined why this skill is a fair exception to the rule and have compared it to things that could be very unbalanced if they hit everything as well. Clearly I am not for the other 2 things, hunter's smoke and demon tank's decrepify. I'm talking about a skill that does a fraction of the damage. It's "balance factor" is rather insignificant if you compare it to many of the "only air or ground" abilities. Take for example the goblin tank. If it could hammer air without a net, that would be rather unbalanced considering that it moves faster, has more HP and typically gets a teleporter. There are real reasons why other abilities don't fit into this kind of a trivial change to the game and to mention them in the same topic is more absurd than your failure of an absurd example. Clearly you are taking me completely out of context when you claim my argument is weak. It is not and I'm very specific. I'm not asking a "for all" change on all weapons. It is one single change, one small change and you act like it is a big deal.
If anything this idea would be worth exploring for 1 version. Get feedback from the community testing it. Give it a month and see what happens. What would be the harm, you learn something?
Ad hominems are one thing but you blatantly posted false information in an attempt to argue with me. What is more incorrect? Exactly what you did.
Elitism is exactly what is surfacing when you act like such a hypocrite. Cry more about being "insulted", it has absolutely no value in terms of the edit I'm proposing. Suppose someone else posted a similar topic? Suppose it likely gets closed. Does this mean all my insulting and the like stops the change from happening? Hmm that doesn't sound fair now does it? Let's suppose someone did that with an HB debate, all future topics get closed due to redundancy. So clearly whether I swear alot in my posts means nothing. What matters is the essence of the topic.
I see people mentioning medivac, a cheaper tank. Clearly a better tank than catapult since its ultimate allows it invulnerability. 2 medivacs are better than 2 demos hands down. People play medivac even late game with hulls. I don't see how catapult shot disrupts this balance. If anything it balances it more because of medivac's distinct advantage - ultimate.
People who are opposing this idea will try to come up with new ideas, but none of them recently have said anything in terms of the other tanks it might affect other than focusing on the helicopter as I have. There is lane switching. People do that all the time. Of all the air tanks, only the helicopter gets discussed. This is only representative of how closed-minded the posters here are. They are not interested in exploring or analyzing anything much more than what the original poster has said. They debate other thinks like semantics rather than the game and its balance.
BTW whoever said a ground tank can't retreat against a demo is making a false statement. A person who is obstructed and has 1 place to go gets hit. A helicopter is free to fly anywhere unobstructed and can go left or right at their own will and can easily evade being hit. A demo shot is not a sure thing if a person is aware of the fact they could be hit. Don't try to argue against this point because the teleporter is a bigger issue than this one skill. It's about game/map awareness (if you die it is your own fault), and the balance is fine. Go pick demo and demonstrate to us that you can hit several shots in a row with success in killing a tank, then we'll talk. Oh and bring the replay because I'll want to discuss the "helicopter" factor in that game as well. Goona do it?
and kingshonors: sure every skill isn't acceptable to be changed to hit all air. I'm not asking for this. I have outlined why this skill is a fair exception to the rule and have compared it to things that could be very unbalanced if they hit everything as well. Clearly I am not for the other 2 things, hunter's smoke and demon tank's decrepify. I'm talking about a skill that does a fraction of the damage. It's "balance factor" is rather insignificant if you compare it to many of the "only air or ground" abilities. Take for example the goblin tank. If it could hammer air without a net, that would be rather unbalanced considering that it moves faster, has more HP and typically gets a teleporter. There are real reasons why other abilities don't fit into this kind of a trivial change to the game and to mention them in the same topic is more absurd than your failure of an absurd example. Clearly you are taking me completely out of context when you claim my argument is weak. It is not and I'm very specific. I'm not asking a "for all" change on all weapons. It is one single change, one small change and you act like it is a big deal.
If anything this idea would be worth exploring for 1 version. Get feedback from the community testing it. Give it a month and see what happens. What would be the harm, you learn something?