Sky Fortress Overpowered

[RedNova]

lIke DerSatan says, while the skill is powerful the rest is underwhelming in my opinion too.

So basically, if we take for a fact that only this skill is IMBA, then that mean the tank is IMBA only about 8% of the time.

Besides, teamplay does not mean greater numbers (not all the time anyway). You don't have to get more players to counter this spell, but you can't do it alone, because of it's nature, and that's the basis or nearly all the points until now. Of course, it is THEORICALLY possible to ensnare all the opposing team at the same time, but it is so damn hard to coordinate it usually happens once every few games. The kind of moment that is remembered for long after the game ended, because it was just pure beauty. But that kind of situation is infrequent at best. And if you can pull this off consistently, then you sure as hell don't need to use an "IMBA" spell to win.

This is quite hard to test because very few games are balanced at that point, like DerSatan points out. It would take something like a 50k-60k start option to really test it in a balanced situation.

Touchy subject it seems.

[Vomitus]

Besides, teamplay does not mean greater numbers (not all the time anyway). You don't have to get more players to counter this spell, but you can't do it alone, because of it's nature, and that's the basis or nearly all the points until now. Of course, it is THEORICALLY possible to ensnare all the opposing team at the same time, but it is so damn hard to coordinate it usually happens once every few games. The kind of moment that is remembered for long after the game ended, because it was just pure beauty. But that kind of situation is infrequent at best. And if you can pull this off consistently, then you sure as hell don't need to use an "IMBA" spell to win.

If you remember Starcraft One championships(where, btw, russian boy once took the world championship;-)) or even pro games - you could see what kind of 'management'(either micro and macro) do players show. I surely hope BT would have such a level 8) so such situation then won't be exception but a rule of good teamplay.

[RedNova]

They most probably had a mean of communication, like TeamSpeak, instead of just text. Besides, we're talking of the la crème de la crème of RTS players here!

If not, then the guys are both really good and psychics! Remember Russia had a program in paranormal abilities (hey! they said so in Indiana Jones 4 and other cold war movies! :-) )

[horselance]

It dont need to be "cream de la cream" or to be "Uri Geller" Just a microphone and a speaker. But if you play with your favorite friends, you wont need a microphone either. Just arrrange the enemies by texting.

[Frechheit]

It dont need to be "cream de la cream" or to be "Uri Geller" Just a microphone and a speaker. But if you play with your favorite friends, you wont need a microphone either. Just arrrange the enemies by texting.

Its true that u can arrange by texting. But all in all i would say communication per voiceserver is more effective and more funny for a player :lol:

[Visjeplus]

This looks like we are getting a little of track.

So ill try and get us back on it.

We can always say sometank is overpowered because its very good at something. Well as long as its bad at other things I don't really find it a problem, at least as long as very good remains within limites.

As for the SF other skills the speed boost is good for escaping and persued, at least i find it nice to get my ass out of a hard situation using this skill.
The boms can be nice while trying to escape a persuing enemy, or used for creepkilling. But its has some drawbacks.
And the extra HP is always nice

So I find the basic skills of the SF nice (not good, but nice)
So lets now look at the ultimate.
A total disabeling ability for a really long time. Mmmmmhhhh as there is a post about the demon tank having a to good of a stun for 3 seconds I begin to wonder (ofcourse you cann't really compair the two).

Now in team play this ability can really be very good (i am not talking about imbalances of numbers 1vs2, 1vs3, 2vs4 etc.) and as a 1vs1 ability it is well better then very good. And that is what I find the problem with this skill. I find here that the drawbacks of this tank don't outweigh the pros and thats mainly because of a very very good ultimate. Secondly, I have experienced from both sides (being a SF and killing the infernal/titan, or being the infernal and being killed by the SF) that this stunning ability can make your 15-25% cheaper tank able to easily kill a more expensive one (not taking into account the very specialize tanks, like exploders).

For every strategie a counter (ofcourse) but this ability tips the scales a little to much for my tast.

[Althend]

It dont need to be "cream de la cream" or to be "Uri Geller" Just a microphone and a speaker. But if you play with your favorite friends, you wont need a microphone either. Just arrrange the enemies by texting.

Its true that u can arrange by texting. But all in all i would say communication per voiceserver is more effective and more funny for a player :lol:

Not when they all speak ger T_T
And if teamspeak is on, you can be sure to hear some badjoke during the game :p

[Vomitus]

If not, then the guys are both really good and psychics! Remember Russia had a program in paranormal abilities (hey! they said so in Indiana Jones 4 and other cold war movies! :-) )

You would still watch a movie 'Dr. Strangelove' - you'll know about horrific DoomsDay machine that russians create :lol:


_Edit:
About SF:
What if we lower duration of ult to 3 or 3.6 seconds but allow SF to move while casting(like Infernal)?
This will prevent 100% of death case when you've been spotted upon SF 1x1 or so. And it also will allow SF to move strategically while in 2x2 or more battles so this ult will require some player skill to use it.

Just ponder that for a moment...

[GooglyBoogly]

It appears that those who believe the SF is overpowered mostly beleive that it it only overpowered by 10-15% or so.

It would not be too difficult/game breaking to drop just the ultimate stun by 10-20% for the next version and see how that goes.

Note that it looks like that the hp/lvl bonnus is going to be dropped in future versions so that the SF will be getting an effective nerf vs cheaper tanks (like the demon tank)

If we still get many complaints, the issue could be revisited.

[TKF]

Not that I'm against the current ultimate, but I could have imagined a different ultimate or skill. maybe since it does have a cannon which isn't used for any skills some kind of shot/projectile abillity?

I'm still in for a skill that supports the cannon the sky fort have, which could either be a replacement of it's ultimate or it's passive skill.

[jonjon]

Sky Fortress is overpowered. Sky Fortress doesn't need any skill. Period. Any fortress with a decent set of weapons can kill EVERY build in a 1v1 fight.

Don't give me this horse shit about people should play as a team. I was about to win with 3 titan AI, a tinker and myself until one sook from the opposite side, knew their teams demise and decided to go fortress and target me because I was the only one pushing and capturing. That person had all his team mates huddled under him waiting to immobilise me so they could gang up. My respawn time was over 1 minute. They had no problem killing my AI and tinker. It was gg.

I've already made it an unwritten rule to not use fortress just because of this one ability. It should be nerfed like the scouts ability. I don't need tanks that empower noobs or puts them on an even playing field. I don't appreciate games where every fucking bot is a fortress and people are throwing ulti's all over the place. It's not fun for anyone.

[DerSatan]

you say "I" was going to win, and that your team sucked. you said they played as a team.


deserved victory.

[Gammagulp]

I also think this skill is not balanced good enough. But I think the problem is, that the other skills are not that good for a 16.5k Gold tank. The bombs are better now, cause the fortress dont stop, but you have to be in close combat and if you stay you even get 50% damage. Its only usable at KP or if you use your ultimate immedieatly after the bombs.
The boost is a little hunter with quiet less damage or only usable for escape.
The bonus HP only give you the HP you loose, cause you take an air tank.
A nerf of the ultimate needs an increase of the other skills i suppose.

The problem of the ultimate till now is, it gets better "every" minute of gamplay, which means if the skyfortress or helpers deal 3000dps you can cause up to 3000 Damage if no other enemy is in range every second without any damage you get back.

If you later on cause 5000 dps its 5000 ...
now imagine more and more...

A simple frostlaser do 2100 dps.
If you can get 3 of it you do 6300dps ...

If you now stun a titan for 5seconds .... --> >30k damage without any shot back
If two SF meet - the question is only, who activates his ulti first

And to the guys who want to say in 3vs3 Infernal is better. If you play against a ganging team of 3 Skyfortress - is it so difficult to imagine, that everybody takes his player and you stun the whole enemy team 5 seconds??? - I suppose it will be easy to use it if they can talk or act as team.

[TKF]

The ultimate should be changed imo. This sounds to overpowered!!!

[kittyonmyfoot]

Here's a replay that you can interpret either way. Btw... the name was a comment on how I was playing that day. The synopsis is that the other team had early leavers and we couldn't take CPs quick enough. Whenever I went to go help push a side some one else came and rather than helping they got in my way so I'd go back to mid. Red had been creeping mid the whole time and started to CP kill my teammates.

The titan came after we pushed them towards their base and they upped troops. Eventually Red and Blue had titans and I went Sky fortress and Blaster cannons. When it came down to it I could tele pwn early but as the game wore on and they got hulls and frost lasers I couldn't keep up. Eventually I let them push my base while I fully upped my troops and dropped mortar teams and reinforcements on their base.

So ya... the skyfortress ultimate is great when you're facing 2 opponents and you're able to split them off... and still more gold is more gold so it's not an auto-wtfpwn?!?!!?

Other things like the turbo boost is what really saved me more than the ultimate ever did.
[attachment=0]

[jonjon]

you say "I" was going to win, and that your team sucked. you said they played as a team.


deserved victory.

But what you don't understand is that the difference was obvious. It ONLY took them one Sky Fortress to turn the whole game around. Otherwise I would've beat them all even if they were teaming up.

Deserved victory? Hardly.

[Morkardar]

For the post above:
A Sky Fortress is a good tank! It is worth 16000 and there are not a lot of better tanks. In fact only 2

Sky Fortress has a HP Skill... it loses one DMG or Speedskill for it. You have to get Speedpack or you are too slow.
Sky Fortress Ultimate for it's own does NO DMG! Infernal and Titan does!

[B-Tanker]

Titan's ulti damages enemy units/tanks? I didn't know, should read and watch more carefully next game.

Infernal's ulti isn't as strong as the ulti of sky fortress in 1v1 fights. The reason is that the infernal's ulti can easily be aborted by the sky fortress and when the infernal is reable to do something, it has already died.

On top of that, the damage of the infernal's ulti is not much compared with the damage that is prevented by fortress' ulti.

And when you talk about teamwork, please dont forget that there could be more than one sky fortress, too. What if they also play together well and do their ultis simultaneous against two different tanks?

I just had a game some minutes ago and even with a titan I had no chance against the sky fortress 1v1. At the end, we beated this one sky fortress with three (!!!) titans. Ok, I have to admit that the sky fortress was feeded then, but this ulti is too strong.

I don't care how it's nerfed (shorter duration/no weapon disabling/no stun), but it should be nerfed to make public games more balanced.

[GooglyBoogly]

it should be nerfed to make public games more balanced.

:lol: I very very strongly disagree with this resoning for requesting any change. Battle tanks is not made to serve the lowest denominator, in Battle Tanks there are a wide variety of strategies and counters to all of them. Requesting a nerf because most players are too dumb/headstrong to use the counter is NOT a reason to change anything. If you personally find it so gamebreaking then make your own restrictions when you host/join saying no skytank/mines/exploder, whatever. There is no point whinging: I/we lost from one strat because they did one thing and we never used the counter.

End Rant.

[xenocide85]

I was thinking about it... what if the SF ult was modified to be more similar to the grav tanks? Being, what if it works exactly as it currently does BUT the tank being targetted can never drop down between 40-50% max HP while shut down. That way, the SF can do a lot of damage, imobilze the target, and prevent it from doing spells and weapon damage, but does not guarntee that the tank will be destroyed or entirely nullified.

your thoughts?