What is the solution to annoying stuff in btanks?

[qweqqweq]

First off I'd like to say that I still think that btanks is the best map out there.

However, there is a lot of stuff that some of use hate and at the same time many other players of different skill levels love about btanks.

Some things i find annoying are:

1. explosives being used on non-exploders
2. tinker noobs
3. exploder noobs
4. mine noobs
5. long range noobs
6. imbalance of trader

Then there are other people who are annoyed by other stuff. Some are annoyed by troop comands and factories. people who love exploder are annoyed by tp breakers. people who use long range are annoyed by teleport. etc, etc...

I don't feel like trying to come up with any more ideas since it just invites ridicule though. If anyone else wants to try though please be my guest.

I was suprised how many people like explosives and yet so far there is a 4 to 1 vote to make a no explosives mode. So it seems most people want to leave everything the way it is and just have more no modes.

I consider this to be a problem and was wondering if there was a solution. And if so, what is it?

[Morkardar]

What is a <item-name-here> noob?
Someone who uses it or someone who cannot use it properly?

Mines can be evaded or defused (exploding the guy next to them )
TP Breaker can be destroyed since this version
Exploder can be evaded with high range skills / TP breaker
Facs can be teared down


I am annoyed of:

feeding without learn-effect
stupid players (newbies are ok... but there are definitive some really ... unintelligent people in bnet)
trading in pubgame (where most even dont know what trader is)
Foreign people not speaking English
Non-Communicative people
People with slow or no reaction
flaming and blehblehbleh after each kill / death
and LEAVING

[Althend]

People feeding on purpose annoy me. I am also annoyed by people who buy fac in base when defending and upgrad it... Without understanding that they don't heal. I also hate when people think useful to buy lazer tower at 2000 gold when we all know it will be destroyed in the next 20-40 sec

[WerWulf]

-kick command, also to communicate to eachother. tell them that they are a moron for wasting that money on that lazer tower.
buy the factoried yourself before they can so they dont have an option of being a moron with them?

people yelling at multiple hunters for using gravity bombs as a team (ie: one after the other finishes)

[Dr.McNinja]

The explosives problem i believe outweights all others by a long way and somewhere i have said to just introduce -no explosives in some way. Reply to that was Exo will not change it and to disable explosives, use -no weapons.

Noob problem: teach...
Stupid person problem: exists everyone online and in real life.
Problem to solve both? make sure every player is competant and responds.. hosting the game or using hostbot helps.. could ask simple questions to weed out noobs? eg. what is a control point? a: allows tank teleport and spawns some troops like a factory.

Trader 'imbalance' would be.. well i dont think its really that big of a problem or annoyance in comparison to the EXPLOSIVES problem. Of course, its fine if you allow it / its allowed. its only annoying when people specifically use explosives in -no exploder games.. I guess you have to be host and make rules before you start.

[SliDeR]

lol thats funny coming from u ducky

1. explosives being used on non-exploders
2. tinker noobs
3. exploder noobs
4. mine noobs
5. long range noobs
6. imbalance of trader

Man u r the king of alternate builds everytime i c u, u just go out testing some new parapligick support build used as a hunting tactick :lol: .Guys cmon behaviour..its an issue.Game script is NOT! Map name is battle tanks all the shit in there (xcuse my french) r based in bt tactics irl.. as others have said there r ways to counter just about anything nowdays (gj to the map makers btw about the kill tb function since now more ballanced) and in the end ull c the solid fighter build overcome any sneaky tact anytime anyday.Hey after all u know how much i h8 miners (names not said qwaq*cough*) or how much i seriouslly detest traders but that is life...personally in pub i make no trader no exploder just in the hope of ppl not ruin game with trader or lol feed with exploder which lets face it explo mostly feeds even more in hb But hmm mb the only weaps option could be worked on a lil bit since it also includes a vast majority of other things besides mines and explocives.But then again ask urself will it be bt enviroment or some cheap mimitation? :wink:

P.S. only thing i rly cant stand off IS THOSE JERGS that get in a fight with their eam or lol were born quitters and bomb their base :evil:

[qweqqweq]

There are 3 main problems i have with explosives. these are just what i see as problems though. this is just the way i see it, and i know some people like these things. If you read my 3 reasons for being annoyed with explosives eventually i think that you'll start to notice these things in your games too and become annoyed by them also. If you aren't annoyed by these things yet it's probably only because you have yet to encounter it or you just aren't good enough of a player for another team to have to resort to these type of tactics to have a chance to fight you.

problem 1. when you cp tp with explosives you can'not be stopped. no matter what you do, there is no counter to a lucky cp tp explosion. if they time it right or just get lucky there is nothing you can do to prevent a death from it. this is annoying to me. whenever you come to an enemy cp or an enemy base they can cp tp in and kill you if they get lucky. the odds are so stacked against you. no matter what tricks you do and no matter how skillfully you play they can still get you with good timing or dumb luck. whatever tank you get they can counter it with a different tank. there is no avoiding it.

problem 2. When playing vs teams with exploders and non-exploders you have to upgrade your tank in order to win vs the non-exploders, however, slow moving ground tanks like the titan are easy targets for exploding tanks. When you are a sky tank or an air ship with at least 1k range on all your weapons it's not too hard to avoid exploders. But eventually you will need to upgrade to a stronger tank and eventually a titan to combat non-exploders. If you can focus 100% of your attention on the exploding tank then the non-exploding tanks will roll right over you. but if don't take into account the movements and possibilities of the exploding tanks at all times then they can kill you within only 1 to 2 seconds.

example: a goblin tank has just enough hit points, speed, and defensive protection to tp close to a titan but outside of breaker range and then stun it with relative ease. if say for instance you are a titan vs a non-exploding demon tank and an exploding goblin tank then you have to stay cautious of all times of this scenario:

the demon tank can stun you and before you recover from the stun the goblin tank can teleport outside of breaker range and also stun you and kill you with the help of the demon tank damagang you also with his weapons. the 3 second stun of the goblin tank ensures that you won't be able to activate your ultimate ability or teleport away in time.

problem 3. reconstruct is based too much on luck and can be overpowered in my opinion. Reconstruct is too powerful of an ability to be left to luck . Sometimes you won't get a reconstruct 10 times in a row. but i've seen guys reconstruct 3 to 6 times in a row a lot also. when some one reconstructs 3 to 6 times in a row multiple times in the same game it's overpowering in my opinion and damned annoying.

possible solutions:

1. use a trigglre to dissable cp tp or increase the cp tp time for a team after a pre-designated some of their base is destroyed or they don't have a single cp. possibly making each cp you have decrease the cp tp time would be helpful.
2. dissalow any tank other than exploder to get explosives
3. give reconstruct a cool down.

Concerning my annoyance with noobs, idiots, and feeders:

the problem i have with noobs is that they take too long to learn the game, and they often do very poorly with mines, exploder, tinker, and to a lesser extent, long range. all the tool tips and tips systems do not work because playes just ignore them because they don't think they are important or they don't have enough time to read them. the only weapons mode is too simple and boring for anyone to play. playing private games all the time is boring becasue it's boring to play the same people all the time and I don't like to wait for long times for games to start. playing public games can get irritating too because oftentimes there are such terrible players because it's too hard for new players to learn the game.

possible solutions:

1. add a permanent freeze time at the start of the game of at least 30 seconds. (i think a full minute would be better)
2. make the information of the map game mechanics appear for a player when they click on the stuff and get a new tank or item unless the player has typed "-notips" .this is the way the tips system works in my map and it wasn't very hard to trigger. i higly recomend it for a map like btanks which is like mine and has many different components which work together in a complex way. this would make much more prominent, pertinent, and helpful tips for new players and yet be easy to turn off for players who don't want to read them.

Here's some examples of the types of things that i think would help a lot:
2a. if you click on a base factory make a message appear saying how much gold the other team gets if it is destroyed.
2b. if you click on a cp make a message appear saying how much force gold the other team gets if it is captured.
2c. if you click on a weapons shop make a message appear saying the weapons damage formula.
2d. if you purchase a mine make a message appear saying that mines are most effective when used against a team of smaller numbers.
2e. if you purchase exploder or explosives make a message appear which says to be careful not to feed the enemy team too much gold or else they will grow stronger and to beware of teleport breakers.
2f. if you purchase tinker make a message appear which says that tinker is a free tank and will be at a great dissadvantage against stronger more expensive tanks regardless of how well you play it, and is also at a dissadvantage if attempting to attack or defend away from his towers.
2g. if you click on a tank shop make a message appear which says you get half your gold back if you sell a tank and that a tank gains 1% hp for every level.
2h. if a player leaves the game make a message appear which says the amount of force gold you get for 1 to 5 player teams and how their gold is divided.
3. add a tool tip on the base factories and cps which expains how and when the force gold is divided.

[SliDeR]

problem 1. when you cp tp with explosives you can'not be stopped. no matter what you do, there is no counter to a lucky cp tp explosion. if they time it right or just get lucky there is nothing you can do to prevent a death from it. this is annoying to me. whenever you come to an enemy cp or an enemy base they can cp tp in and kill you if they get lucky. the odds are so stacked against you. no matter what tricks you do and no matter how skillfully you play they can still get you with good timing or dumb luck. whatever tank you get they can counter it with a different tank. there is no avoiding it.

^^ kill non-exploders build baricade and watch explo in their base when they tp go a lil back n kill them,or btr yet take 1 for the team tp and use their own exploders kill the whole enemy team :lol:

[qweqqweq]

slider, i dont' understand what you're trying to say. It seems like you're asuming that the exploder's going to be a total idiot. you can't get a barricade if the other team already has one. And i can't always keep an eye on an enemy exploder in base when i'm fighting other guys, and a good exploder with a little teamwork and comunication will kill me and not his own teamates if i give him the opportunity. Of course if the exploder and his team are really bad it's easy to beat them. But that's true no matter what tank they have. Wherever a cp tp is possible for them they need only time it right and then get a little lucky. Though i will admit that taking cps from exploders is much easier than seiging a base vs one. especially if you don't have a flying tank. When you're in an enemy exploder's base at the same time you can try to set breakers and/or be ready to avoid a regular teleport you must also prepare for them to possibly cp tp to you (plus they might be using antigrav, infernal, schredder, goblin tank or something else which you'll have to watch out for). all they need is a little luck to get you. it's just too easy for them to defend in my opinion. Even something simple like a scout can kill you without you having a chance by netting you and cp tp'ing to you. Or just a stun from an allied tank of his as he cp tp's to you is an-avoidable sometimes. if you get a tp breaker outside there base to protect a tcc in order to try and bomb their base then they can get a lot of different tanks instead of exploder and still explode you easily despite your tp breaker.

Slider, i'm able to counter exploder in most situations and sometimes it is easy. however, like i said, i still think that in a close game the reconstruct can be imba, cp tp is overpowered for exploders, and not all exploding tanks can be countered esp by slow titans. If it's a close game and you're down a player and one of them starts exploding then you're really screwed. if you dissagree then either you're a better player than me or you just haven't faced a skilled enough oponent who's resorted to this tactic.

In my experience, a team of moderate skill can prolong a game for a very long time or even defeat a team over 2 x's their skill level with exploding tactics when they would otherwise be unable to compete. I think that this should not be the case. Exploders are way too defensive I think. They have waaaaaaay too many advantages when defending and they make the game boring for me. I can understand having patience is important. But doing stuff like just sitting outside a base for an hour with no chance to force a victory is really stupid.

[Dr.McNinja]

Personally cp teleporting exploders arent as big a problem as noob exploders in general.. i will say, try to get barricade if its an important point or just watch for them and step back before they tp in. But thats only in a good case, i have died many times to exploders because ive been busy watching other areas or if it was a surprise exploder.. lol. Like when im so focusses on what im doing and whats happening around me, i fail to noticed an exploder in the game, who tps to me.

@qweqqweqmeow's gigantic post

I have my even bigger but apparently not actually bigger post in reply. I realised this wasnt suggestions forum so i created a new topic there from a point you made. Stolen!

http://forum.btanks.net/viewtopic.php?f=...682#p25682

[Althend]

Last games I did some fun combo with exploder... Stun first with Demon or using Hunter's ultima. Or i just go to cp to make enemies teleport to me and expldoer jump on them (when I telep away)

I totally understand that it may be really annoying...

[SliDeR]

Bro why am i under the impression u r reffering in HB mode?^^ qweq no way ull ever meet in a serious game no hb a guy with demon or even more infernal and full explosives inv.I can understand up 2 the goblin just cause it gets a speed boost with stun spell but even so more hp=more time u have 2 react i only consider them as a promblem in a mass lagg game which lol id be having promblem in just about any build vs good enemy so w/e.From experience and i disagree with

Personally cp teleporting exploders arent as big a problem as noob exploders in general

an exploder is as good or as bad as any other tank in the game and its user as good/bad as the nxt guy with a diferent build.There was only 1 thing slightlly imba which i loved it (sigh h8 u bob+exodus 4 the change btw..) and that was the 1st overload script in fortress.In non-hb modes all things can be countered with efficiensy if u dont waste time thinking should i bother or not.In hb well its fun mode just enjoy the ride even if u lose.But even in hb mode hmm the amount of feeding they offer lol plz kill me 100 times if u gonna get 36 reconstruct most likelly by then ill be having titan pp+up+4 frost so i dont rly mind.And sides dont forget hehe if ur team lacks anti-explo skills or simple cant realize that 1 goes other w8 to take cp and not die also or just keep stacking their hides in a nc target circle u can allways make a nc tp and go exploder-hunting :wink:

P.S. i love enemy exploders sry bro

[qweqqweq]

no slider, i'm not just talking about hb mode. please stop making asumptions. if i play some one and kill them a dozen times in a row in 5 to 15 minutes then a lot of times my opponent resorts to exploding no matter what the case may be hb, normal mode, no exploder, no tinker, it doesn't matter. and if i play some one and destroy them and their team then the next time i play them they often get explosives against me. slider you of all people should know just how much i have to deal with exploders since you've played with me a lot. I'm not saying i'm the best or anytihing but you've seen me singlehandedly destroy entire teams with 2 to 3 seconds delay quit a few times. imagine what it's like for me in lordaeron where a lot of players know me and i'm playing with little or no delay most the time? I have resorted to banning some players when i'm hosting and i dissable tinker and exploder when they use explosives more than once against me after i've warned them not to do it again.

I wasn't going to mention this but since you're still arguing with me i will.

slider, you should also know that i know how to counter exploders very good since two times i killed you so much that you sold all your stuff to get exploder vs me withing the first 15 minutes and then i still annihilated you and your base with ease and both times you or bom)I( were hosting and you had good players on your team. If you would read what i wrote i said that it's 3 things that i don't like about explosives and exploder I and can have a hard time with sometimes. none of those 3 things have occured in any of the games i've played with you.

To be honest, i get sick of winning every game sometimes so i like to join games of other hosts and and play on light force with no one i know on my team whenever i can and most of the time i stack the other team as much as i can with good players. It's usually in these games that i encounter enemies using explosives who prolong games or beat me with them.

i'm playing in a close game (any mode) then it's often really tough and sometimes impossible for me to beat explosives despite me having numerous tactical advantages and extra gold i've gained by out-farming my opponents. and heaven forbid i should have one less player on my team, then it can be a nightmare if they get explosives.

[Princess_Bob]

It had never occured to me that you could do a cp teleport across your own base if they had breakers around. That I feel is definitely an exploit, or at least bad tact. Now if we are talking about a control point on the map, I feel that a teleport in is fair game. That is where you should be killing a barracks first so you can put your own down (and I mean not standing on the point while killing it) or buying it and stepping off. I play the exploder quite a bit, and it doesn't have to be a defensive stand, I really enjoy pushing enemies back. I think when used offensively it is even more powerful if you have teammates who can take advantage appropriately.

Slow lumbering tanks will always struggle, but keep in mind that an exploder who is killing titans has invested everything into those explosives, and it is hard to make a switch after that.

[SliDeR]

I love u qweq-man :lol: (in a manly way ofc) Both 4 ''apologizing'' as well as 4 humour man 1st of all u know i did that to piss bom off that ks me all the time and 2ndly man if anything that should prove my point... vs exploder aint even need skills lol just a knowledge if the items and the map's script i rly cant c why they bother u so much..personally i find it more annoying 2 have them in my team even if they r rlyRLY good at their job than to have em as enemies.

[bobbob247]

The problem with exploder is that they can get extremely lucky. I had a game where I was a guard (b/c it was a 5k HB w/ start lvl 10). I packed some breakers to counter the exploder. However, EVERY TIME (like 95% of the time) the exploder would get hit by a breaker, he would reconstruct (I can't unroot and run in time). I think during that game he had a 75% reconstruction rate around me (literally). It got to the point where the exploder was laughing really hard, b/c he was so lucky.

[Princess_Bob]

If you are starting with 10 levels, he is going ot have a good jump on his ability to begin. Reconstruction is a simple probability. Sometimes you hit it, maybe even several times in a row, then you can go games without it happening. Sorry about your luck

[ywhtptgtfo]

Yeah something needs to be balanced here. I just lost a 2 hour game. My team had 2 players (3 of them left) and the opposing team had 4. We raped the for most of the game and then they just turtle in their base with mines and an exploder. Whenever we get close, we take so much damage that we have to heal. Then we lost because they eventually farmed and outnumbered us.

Once all 6 external factories are owned and all 6 internal factories of opposing team are obliterated, there should be some big bonus given to the other team and not just money-wise. The team on defense have such a huge terrain advantage these days because they can keep buying spawning factories from behind the main artillary factory and rebuild the two laser towers at mid to keep themselves alive. Not to mention, whenever they die, they just respawn right beside their factories while the enemies have to walk all the way back (in late game, a spawning factory will not last long near an enemy base).

I'd suggest dealing with this issue by giving mega creeps to the team who owns all 6 control points and destroyed all enemy factories (excluding purchased) and perhaps incur a steep cost of rebuilding the artillary factory towers (like 4k). As for exploders, they should give way more bounty (the exploder I played against had 6 huge explosives but a bounty of 600, which is wtf). Perhaps also add a teleport breaker pack that is permanent and summons a teleport breaker every 60 seconds or something

[qweqqweq]

it might be helpful to put a build time on towers from tower ruins like the scout's watch towers.

[Princess_Bob]

Teleport breaker every 60 seconds? They last for 3 minutes! While I dont mind the idea of a pack that summons, that is too much. A good exploder is hard to stop, but can also be a serious risk on a team that is stuck in an enclosed space. You can catch the exploder before a port and damage teammates. You can get breakers placed closer to artillery factory so he he hurts teammates, etc...

If you are trying to siege 2v4, it is not something I feel should be a given that you win. You have two guys!!! Sorry about your teammates quitting on you, but there reaches a point where the opposing 4 start to balance out with the uber twinkage you got by being only two. Basically you had a window to shut them out copletely, and you took too long. They closed the gap between you, and then when you died, you suffered a 50% loss in capacity instead of them a 25%. The death advantage is huge in small games, and if you can't work them down a couple at a time, then you will lose the game.

Flood them with creep (UPGRADED), mabe look into switching some of your items. All those sweet weapons are pretty useless against 4 guys at once. If you cant seperate them out then you have to try and be creative. People laugh at the Smoke Generator, but if you get one early enough, and I am speaking of early mid-game, then it is very powerful. Wards are too expensive to cover the whole map, and once you are sieging their base it should be too late anyhow.

I imagine there are many things you could have done differently to make a difference in this game. Do not blame it on one exploder and 3 guys turtling with mines in their base. Your situation was not what I would consider to be the basis of this game design.