THE MINES!! To strong, good enough or to weak?

[jonjon]

I don't think mines are too strong.
It's activation time (3 seconds) is never 3 seconds. It's at least 5. Laggy people can never get killed from a mine. By the time their computer can even detect the mine placement, the countdown begins then. This makes strategies like trader invis + mine or anti-grav ulti + mine useless.

In normal gameplay though, mines are a defensive procedure:
I use to to prevent people from buying from the weapons shop in mid.
I use it to prevent people buying tanks at the goblin trader.
I use it to prevent people from taking control points.

But, I reckon a person should be able to use diffuse against enemy mines and the explosion from it should damage friendly and enemy units. That's an open strategy.
Mines should go back to their former self and you should improve the diffuse pack.
And how about introducing an ultimate mine?

Games end up sucking when you nerf a lot of things. That's why King of Fighters is dead.

And for people who can't beat a demo -- Two ways to tank it without having to retreat: light tank + stun + heal combo (makes people think twice before using catapult) OR Helicopter + bombarding rockets. Unfortunately for helicopter, you have to make a decent amount of kills to make up for the slow levelling and lack of creeping. But it works.

[Frechheit]

I don't think mines are too strong.
It's activation time (3 seconds) is never 3 seconds. It's at least 5. Laggy people can never get killed from a mine. By the time their computer can even detect the mine placement, the countdown begins then. This makes strategies like trader invis + mine or anti-grav ulti + mine useless.

In normal gameplay though, mines are a defensive procedure:
I use to to prevent people from buying from the weapons shop in mid.
I use it to prevent people buying tanks at the goblin trader.
I use it to prevent people from taking control points.

But, I reckon a person should be able to use diffuse against enemy mines and the explosion from it should damage friendly and enemy units. That's an open strategy.
Mines should go back to their former self and you should improve the diffuse pack.
And how about introducing an ultimate mine?

Games end up sucking when you nerf a lot of things. That's why King of Fighters is dead.

And for people who can't beat a demo -- Two ways to tank it without having to retreat: light tank + stun + heal combo (makes people think twice before using catapult) OR Helicopter + bombarding rockets. Unfortunately for helicopter, you have to make a decent amount of kills to make up for the slow levelling and lack of creeping. But it works.

Which Server are you playing? Would like to play against u with demolisher

greetz Frechheit

[Tank-]

i use to use mine all the time but now that you cant stack them i dont realy waste time on a "mabie" and instead pick skills where i can just 2 shot people any time i want. lowering the dmg would have been fine but adding a 100 yard range per mine just ruined them IMO. by the time you get them high enough to 1 shot people they already ahve a new tank or hull so whats the point? by then people hit 4-5 of them and still dont die. so make them stackable again or put the dmg back where it was. oh and i dont belive the remote alows you to see them i think it should but it should cost more i mean if you spend 7k on a mine you dont want it to be wasted for half that.

[Tribulation]

If you spend some time to think about putting mines at strategic locations, it's no problem to use them effectively even with the dmg and the range limit they have right now. There are plenty of positions to put them, especially against tanks and other ground-based vehicles, as they gotta use a narrow path to push. A mine that does around 600 dmg can kill a light tank or a heli if they have slightly less than full hp, and two of them can kill both instantly. As for bigger tanks: demo costs less than half of what airship and thunder tank cost, so logically it must have difficulties killing them with its skills; and the mining kits' dmg/price ratios are fine. Of course it gets harder and harder to kill bigger tanks with mines, but maybe it's just not made to be a strategy usable throughout the game; especially the innate mines of demolisher.

[Prog]

From a imbalance discussion yesterday a quite good idea came up. As it is really hard to make the demolisher + multi bow weaker, but not useless it may be the wrong approach to do so, otherwise we should try to create a really good way adepting to it. The suggestion which came to our mind might not be enough, but in my opinion it can be a step forward: Antigrav Jump should not trigger mines. With this change the antigrav can take more risk against demolishers, due to the fact that you can dodge the mines. With some sort of small cooldown increase of mines this might be a way solving the demolisher case by creating a real counter and makes the antigrav a more frequently choosen tank (as it is now you rarely see one in private games).

[Frechheit]

Exodus what do u think about this theme? Can u change it somehow?

mfg Frech

[Exodus]

Well, of course I can Its just the question what to do ...

First I'm trying to do something without reducing the damage of the mines, in case they are still too strong we can still nerf them.

[Frechheit]

Well, of course I can Its just the question what to do ...

First I'm trying to do something without reducing the damage of the mines, in case they are still too strong we can still nerf them.

i think to make the demolisher 100 gold more expensive would make him less interesting :/

other things would be to lower the damage of the mines to 50% or sth. like that

really the mines annoy lots of players every game

[horselance]

In last n games i buy demolisher without doubt. Sometimes i consider to buy a helli but then i think that "I ll f.ck up if a guy buys a demo.."
Only thing that is durable to mines is demo itself. For a long time i play with demo and seen that a demo is deadly against everything until Goblin.
I dont say it must be nerfed because i play with it

[Frechheit]

In last n games i buy demolisher without doubt. Sometimes i consider to buy a helli but then i think that "I ll f.ck up if a guy buys a demo.."
Only thing that is durable to mines is demo itself. For a long time i play with demo and seen that a demo is deadly against everything until Goblin.
I dont say it must be nerfed because i play with it

That is really the problem So Exo plz think about a good solution

[gulfy32]

I think you should make the range placement of mines more than 100 and/or limit the amount of mines a player can place. A game I played last week a demolisher had his mine skill and then bought three mines. The entire map was covered.

[Tribulation]

He could not have bought much else if he had that many mine kits, thus he should have been an easy target. The distance between single mines is high enough, it would be too hard to make good minefields with low-dmg mines if the distance was any higher. As for the number of mines: if it was limited, to 15 e.g., the demolisher must have a possibility to remove existing mines, like the tinker can remove his towers, because mines he put at his first cp might become useless later and prevent him from putting more mines at the place he fights later.

[Zvpun]

I think that mines are too strong. When I die to mines I feel cheated almost like a human in normal Warcraft that makes lots of towers. For me it removes all the fun and joy of battle tanks and I look forward to a "no mines" option.

With the recent decrease of hp and an 1000 damage mine it is an instant death, and there is only luck envolved. Furthermore its very difficult to counter mines early game. The observer wards dont counter mines, since
a) you move and dont know where you will stay during the next time
b) it doesnt last particularly long
c) especially early game 200 gold is quite a bit of money and you wont need 1 pack of wards

Its hard to counter mines mid and late game, because the item (I forgot its name) that detects them and makes them explode has a cooldown, so if they buy a mine item you cant compete. Furthermore its 2250 gold (I think) and that is still much money (at least mid game).

At the very least I want the cooldown of the mine defuse kit (is that its name?) removed but I think that mines take away so much fun of battle tanks and should be reduced to 50 % of its current damage.

[Tribulation]

Mines would become worthless if any of the suggestions you made were implemented, going for a mine kit is a risky investment too, and you're screwed if the enemy counters your only strategy of getting kills. I went for mining kit with nothing but a demo, a multibow, and a light magic (the one for 1111), my opponent (light tank) was careful, got a hull, and a defuser (without any truesight), he owned me, because I could not keep up, he blew up my mines way faster than I could put new ones. The cooldown is fine as it is.

What could be done to make it easier to counter them is to increase the duration of the wards, or to make them cheaper. Most people I play against with demo do not seem to know that wards exist or can be used against mines, I rarely encounter ward-setting.

No offense intended, but it sounds as if you're pissed because mines annoy you, but that doesn't mean they're imba ;-)

[Althend]

Tee guy take light + hull + defuser. Does he have weapon?

You just had to swith with a teamate and he was totally owned T_T

[Tribulation]

Yup, upgraded Fireball Cannon, he started normally with light tank. What exactly would keep him from switching with his mate as well?

[Althend]

Because it is more a waste of time for him to move anywhere you go.
The demo with bow does the first move. Being the follower is always harrassing.
His specialisaytion againt one player. The specialisation of demo is against more than one.
The tech of demo is still lethal against a large amount of players, the guy specialised to counter the mines doesn't have a "bonus" against a large amount.

[Durka_Jihad]

If you defuse a mine, you should get money $$

[jonjon]

Which Server are you playing? Would like to play against u with demolisher
greetz Frechheit

I play on an Australian server - Bored Aussie. Not sure if you can get there. Would be awesome if you could.
Or else I'd have to install my battle chest so I can go on the REAL battle.net. Yes, I'm using a fake at the moment

[jonjon]

If you defuse a mine, you should get money $$

lmao @ your username. That's an interesting idea. I reckon the bounty for diffusing a mine should be small like 5-7% of the max damage the mine brings. It will beg mine layers to be more creative about mine laying. Also, it is a pretty big sacrifice to buy a full diffuse kit. It takes up a slot and is generally used to avoid damage or death. We have items that give defense, attack, speed, invisibility but not gold. I support that idea. Nice work terrorist.. "durka durka".

What confuses me is.... do people have a problem with mines or a problem with people starting off with demo and using mines?