New game mode: Medium Bounty

[scron2]

Another suggestion that may include several sub-suggestions.

1) A medium bounty mode, between high bounty and normal.

-> teleport needs to be re-adjusted to 50 gold here.
Supposing high bounty is 3x normal, 2x normal will be medium.
(you get the idea).... also normal modes tp should really cost 25.

Why is this necessary? Well when income is removed, you increase
the creep bounty to balance what was taken away and that compensates
for the "free noob gold" every 5 mins.

Esentially, this suggestion makes the best of normal mode by
giving the players who can lane well a better chance. While not
completely throwing the game by giving anyone huge amounts of gold.

Hero tanks of course would be still slightly more than normal mode.

[Lezowski]

Why don't you go and make a brand new game? Since that is what you're suggesting.

[Velocity2k]

There are enough modes atm. And we won't add another unbalanced fun-mode.

[scron2]

There are enough modes atm. And we won't add another unbalanced fun-mode.

Ok I don't think you understand. Normal mode takes forever,
and normal mode gold is gotten by farming, ganking or ....
WAITING!? The point is to remove the waiting, and reward
the players who can lane better.

BUT if you think this is just another HB, you are wrong.
Essentially I'm saying rework Normal mode so that you
don't get the 5-minute noob gold and in turn give that
laning advantage back to balance the "ganking" game
that this game currently has gotten to.

Right now regardless of mode, GANKING > LANING.
The XP lost and creeps kills lost by failed ganks still
work out for the better to the ganking team because
of this 5-minute free gold, so don't tell me I don't know
this game enough to suggest a good balance idea.

[BENNIE.FM]

LOL @SCRON
Everyone thinks hb is so quick and fast its just as long as normal and it gets to a point where it goes back and forth continuously people can afford to rebuild towers and facts easily its not a quick version

Besides hb is bullshit unbalanced cant call it a fair or pro game ever ^^

[scron2]

LOL @SCRON
Everyone thinks hb is so quick and fast its just as long as normal and it gets to a point where it goes back and forth continuously people can afford to rebuild towers and facts easily its not a quick version

Besides hb is bullshit unbalanced cant call it a fair or pro game ever ^^

Is the rebuild cost a constant amount among high bounty and normal bounty?
Is the TP cost also constant?

I know the answer to the TP cost, the HB rebiuld costs I would also assume are
the same. There's your problem (with rebuilding). The other half is weapons scalability. There
needs to be a few stronger weapons/hulls to accomodate HB mode.

That is all.

[TKF]

There needs to be a few stronger weapons/hulls to accomodate HB mode.

That is all.

No you don't need stuff to accomodate custom modes such as hb. Everything in the game is built around a normal game.

Should the mappers also balance games according to weak creeps? No requirement games? No trader? No! The game are balanced for normal games with normal rules.


The map is balanced according to normal game and not adjusted to fit other modifications chosen by the host. High bounty is just a custom mode feature and not a normal game feature.




It's up to the mappers to add more expensive weapons and items.

[GooglyBoogly]

between high bounty and normal.

The average between normal and high isn't medium. Medium is the middle amount - which IS normal

Try a different word - one that makes sense.

[BENNIE.FM]

aha googly funi hr mm plz don't introduce another bullshit unbalanced mode

[scron2]

It does not matter what mode you are in... there still needs to be some stronger hulls and weapons.

You say why change those things because of the game mode? And you just sit there blindly as the
tank requirements, are all commonly known to be completely broken at this point sit the same for
all modes. Since when is the hunter tank so shitty? It's a fucking joke. You might as well just make
the game "ready for all modes" by letting people only choose from:
light tank,
helicopter,
hunter/sky tank,
titan.

Regardless of bounty, every game takes this form in one way or another. So don't go around telling
me that the weapons "are not needing to be buffed, etc." just because I prefer a higher bounty game.

Deep down inside I know SEVERAL PLAYERS would dread the day a new stronger hull was allowed to be
in the game because that would be the demise of the hunter tank and nerfs to poison gas would
undoubtedly be soon to follow it. So don't try to tell me I'm some sort of fucking noob. I know what
abuses and exploits the "pros" hide behind with their strategies and this is why you don't like my idea.

[BENNIE.FM]

omg you have no game experince or knowledge of the map and how calculations are done or what the the map maker is trying to achieve hes trying to make a balanced 3k normal game nothing to do with this hb bullshit

[scron2]

Let's suppose that creeps from the CP's now give 0 gold.
Now let's suppose everything else is the way it is except the free gold every 5 minutes, it gets removed.
Now lets suppose that killing a rax upgrades your team's armor by 3 points, and capturing a CP gives a 1-time upgrade of 1 armor.

Since BTANKS is a team-oriented game, killing a rax or capturing a CP is an event that most liklely needs a few tanks to achieve.
Making the armor upgrades come along with killing structures speeds up the game and injects gold into the game in a non-ganking
manner.

Increase the bounty slightly and your problems are solved.

I think the challenge for the BTANKS modders is to create a game that is
1) Balanced
2) Playable for at least 30 mins with reasonable balance -- 20 mins 2:1 kills IS ALWAYS GG, because once you are out-ganked
that is the definition of out-farmed as well. There is no such thing as "catching up" it does not exist 90% of the time.

[GooglyBoogly]

Increase the bounty slightly and your problems are solved.

What problems?

2) Playable for at least 30 mins with reasonable balance -- 20 mins 2:1 kills IS ALWAYS GG, because once you are out-ganked
that is the definition of out-farmed as well. There is no such thing as "catching up" it does not exist 90% of the time.

You just contradicted yourself there. I have had a few games - yes not many but say 5-10% of games, where a team that was losing by as many as 2:1 kills came back to win in the end.

This can be because of a number of reasons:

1: The team that was behind had a trader, and made up the gold there
2: The team that had all the kills had mass long-range, and was unable to push
3: The team with 2:1 did not know how to siege a base
4: the team that was 2:1 had a single good player, so teamwork was able to overcome him
5: the team that was behind went for mines, and the opposing team didn't get defusers.

Now I agree, most of these cases involve the 2:1 team making bad play, but that is how it should be. There is nothing wrong with having the better team win. And why does the game have to be balanced for the first 30 min? There is nothing wrong with a skilled team winning before this.

It seems to me that you enjoy hb more than the normal game, see the imbalances in hb and thus want to balance btanks around hb as much as possible.
However it is impossible to balance Battle Tanks around both 5k hb and normal at the same time - without changing almost all aspects of the map for each mode.

The ENTIRERY of the past in Btanks, the map makers have balanced Battle Tanks around normal mode, and this is likely to continue into the future.
So if you want to create balance around hb, you'll need to go create a map of your own, or play with house rules, because the mappers are not going to do it for you.

[scron2]

^
This post confirms that ganking is the only way to win.

"better teamwork" -> ganking.
"too much long range" = laneing/farming ie, not ganking.
"trader" -> introduction of gold.
"mine defence" -> ganking, just in a subversive manner. Depends on skill.

As we can see, pushing involves "ganking" and it is the only way to get shit done.
Most LR weapons kill good during the start but are no good if you are going to be
outright ganking/pushing. An axe cannon or AA gun work far more better in this
department as does the hunter tank + whatever combo you have.

Everyone must realize this game doesn't revolve around killing creeps because the
income doesn't let you get a reasonable advantage over those who roam the map
killing enemy tanks. This is a significant problem, and movement items need to be
nerfed accordingly. TP needs a nerf of at least 1000 range.

All I'm saying is that there needs to be an end to the "FREE NOOB GOLD" and that
bounties for tanks should be scaled and the creeps bounties need to be adjusted
as well so that a team that has 1 feeding lane, still has a chance to keep up in farming
rather than struggle all game until they eventually kick the feeder. There needs to
be a real balance here.

Thank you for posting that to clarify that there really is a need to adjust the imbalance "ganking" creates.

[BENNIE.FM]

pff ganking lol it happens in dota and btanks not a legitimate reason

[GooglyBoogly]

Thank you for posting that to clarify that there really is a need to adjust the imbalance "ganking" creates.

Whenever you sag ganking, I read 'teamwork'

There is nothing wrong with the better organised team winning. That is the nature of Battle Tanks. If you want to play a solo style game - go play something else, or use house rules saying that people must stick to their lanes.

[scron2]

Thank you for posting that to clarify that there really is a need to adjust the imbalance "ganking" creates.

Whenever you sag ganking, I read 'teamwork'

There is nothing wrong with the better organised team winning. That is the nature of Battle Tanks. If you want to play a solo style game - go play something else, or use house rules saying that people must stick to their lanes.

Excuse me?

When you say "team work" I read:

Hey one of us gets hunter and we'll kill them with cheap abilities until
we can afford to get a titan and begin to win the game. SO basically
this isn't even relating in any way to skill but rather who can get the
imbalanced tank/s first and proceed to gank. Consequently there is
no real counter to a team that gets more hero kills. All there is left to
do is lose. People say HB takes just as long if not longer than regular mode
and I'm telling you that it probably is because
1) Weapons/hulls are not scaled properly.
2) It probably is more balanced.

Now, don't get me wrong here. I'm just using some quotes from the "pros"
that I have seen saying this shit. It certainly is rational to assume that
a mode is more balanced if it can take a longer duration. But the other
remaining reasons link to items that COULD have been bought if they had
enough power that is, to actually facilitate ending the game.

The problem overall is that ganking MUST happen for a game to speed up in progress.
If either team does not gank anything, the game drags on and on and on.
Why is this? Because there isn't enough gold being injected into the game and
right now people have to wait another 5 mins to get that next weapon/hull/tank.

And this is why the air tanks have become so popular, mainly the ones that offer
an increase in speed for free. They allow not only MORE ganking, but also hunter
protection and since they are faster, more farming as well. This game revolves
around ganking and there needs to be some adjustments. Creep bounty is a start
with the removal of the "5min noob gold" to the nerfing of the teleporter range.

[BENNIE.FM]

Why does he even bother not like anyone takes him serious anyway haha

[GooglyBoogly]

Hey one of us gets hunter and we'll kill them with cheap abilities until
we can afford to get a titan and begin to win the game. SO basically
this isn't even relating in any way to skill but rather who can get the
imbalanced tank/s first and proceed to gank.

What is your problem with ganking?
Ganking is how you leverage your teamwork to bring overwhelming force against a lesser force.
That is just smart play.

Regardless of game mode, low, med high very high none infinite bounty. There will always be ganking, since multiple players working together will always become more effective than everyone doing what they want.

All I'm saying is... ...and that
bounties for tanks should be scaled

They already are, see the Battle Tanks Mechanics thread for details

movement items need to be
nerfed accordingly. TP needs a nerf of at least 1000 range.

WTF? What on earth has this got to do with introducing a medium bounty mode?

Please, keep on topic.

a team that has 1 feeding lane,

If you have one, or more players that are struggling, your team needs to rally around them and cover them. That is the nature of battle tanks.
If you leave them to rot, and feed - then of course it is going to become a problem. But the problem lies with the entire team, not just the feeder(s).

I cannot stress this enough to you, Battle Tanks is a Team Game. It matters not, how strong a single player is - anyone can be taken down by a well-organised team.

This is how it should be.


If you wanted to play a game that does not support teamwork, then i say again to you - go make your own map, or play with houserules.

[scron2]

All I'm saying is that ganking has NO COST to the individual who does it.

1) TPing is instantaneous, there are no cooldowns associated with it.
2) TP costs little
3) It costs the other team to TP as well (your teamwork argument)
4) If the gank fails, you still have caused the other team
harassment, and lost gold due to "teamwork", ie teleporting.
5) A typically feeding lane can happen because someone just gets Teleporter first
-- this is a fact regardless of mode, and it is worth mentioning due to the items inherent imbalance.
6) SO not defending does not mass you a large enough amount of gold when a hero on the other
team leaves the lane to compensate for the loss of xp/gold that they should incur.

It is NOT balanced. In DOTA if people were to roam around like that they would not only have NO GOLD
they would also have NO XP. In btanks this isn't the case because you don't lose the XP or the gold because
you can still farm up reasonably even if you hit 1/4 or 1/5 of the creeps because every 5 mins there is
"noob gold" to compensate you for any losses you have incurred.

BUT MOSTLY the no-tradeoff ganking in btanks is a result of the access to teleport anywhere, and the
fact that items like the teleporter move 3000 range. Both of these game aspects need to be looked at
as well as the "noob gold" because these are causing rifts in the game that make "ganking" the only way
to get any sort of an edge. The difference between teamwork and ganking is that ganking involves
almost only pure game abuse, ie get a teleporter, or any sort of combo that works and then
only kill hero tanks because creeps are negligible and you recover that loss in the noob gold.

The "noobs" who farm up need to be given more of an edge. It's that simple. Making ganking more
difficult. Nerf CP-CP tp by a cooldown that is longer. Nerf the teleporter range. And remove the
noob gold so the players in the lane, get the gold and the players creeping less don't get additional
gold by just ganking. That's bullshit. In order to be competitive you should ACTUALLY be better than
your opponent, not just take advantage of some fact that you know farming creeps is futile in comparison
to outright ganking.