This poll is only about to find out how many finds this idea good, NOT a vote for a change. If you have another suggestion, post it here
The stronger the tank is, the harder is it to kill it.
The higher dps the tank has, the higher rate of dmg it cause.
But getting more hp does usually work better combined with some firepower.
A new tank gives more for the money than a weapons does. Also all normal tanks has a quite good tank cannon ability which is included with the tank skill.
The Issue:
(Bounty displayed here does not include the KpD factor!)
Also a heavy tank with 2 upgraded basic magics (260 gold bounty) is almost worth the same as a heli with 3 upgraded plasma guns (255 gold bounty). The strange thing about this is that the heavy tank got much greater advantage against the heli, with stronger abilities and much more hp. If the heli buys a hull, it's worth more than the heavy tank in bounty :S. So obviously a new tank gives more for the money than a new weapon. Assuming the heli get killed often, of course the bounty will lower a little; but still almost worth the same.
Suggestion:
What if the bounty calculated of tanks, was doubled? You buy a heavy tank. It costs 5500 gold and you still sell it at a half price, but the bounty value increase could be 170 gold bounty increase instead of the current 85 bounty increase. You could buy the tank at a price of 5500 gold, but a new tank would greatly increase the bounty. (Doubling of point value of tank)
Applying this would change bounty of a:
-Light tank with a fireball cannon from 171 gold to 183.
-Tinker with energy torpedo would stay at 168, cuz he doesn't cost anything.
-Heavy tank with a upgraded fireball cannon from 254 gold to 338.
-Infernal-robot with 3 upgraded fireball cannons from 489 to 720, (yeah I know, a big difference here)
I know this could conflict with the triggers that calculates value with the units point value, but I think some of them can be set to 0.25 instead of 0.5, when you sell tanks. I don't know what else this is used for. Also the bounty change can be applied by doubling the point value in the triggers for the tank value.
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Summary:
-Weak tanks with a lot of weapons can be worth the same as a strong tanks with few weapons
-Double the effect the tank value contribute on bounty?
where does the exploder fit in it? no weapon, low tank, so alwyas low bounty? ^^
*not voted yet*
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With my suggestion, the exploders bounty will unfortunately barely increase cuz tank value 400 -> "800", so 6 gold more. Tinker have 0, so it remains unaffected. Low cost tank will not increase bounty that much, like a infernal which is hard to kill.
Weapons has the same value as other items. A 6000 gold item does increase the tank value like a 6000 gold weapon would do. sry for not mentioning items in my examples. Small Explosives give same bounty increase as a single fireball cannon.
What I've suggested is just a "better tank provide more bounty" suggestion
TKF Wrote:(Bounty displayed here does not include the KpD factor!)
Also a heavy tank with 2 upgraded basic magics (260 gold bounty) is almost worth the same as a heli with 3 upgraded plasma guns (255 gold bounty). The strange thing about this is that the heavy tank got much greater advantage against the heli, with stronger abilities and much more hp. If the heli buys a hull, it's worth more than the heavy tank in bounty :S. So obviously a new tank gives more for the money than a new weapon. Assuming the heli get killed often, of course the bounty will lower a little; but still almost worth the same.
I think you aren't giving the Helicopter as much credit as you should be. I mean, yes in terms of 1v1 combat or with units present, the Heavy Tank squashes the Helicopter. At L10 the Heavy Tank can outright kill the Helicopter at long ranges with its Missile and incur critical damage at medium range with AoE. That doesn't really matter.
With the speed and ability to traverse terrain, the Helicopter dictates the terms of engagement or lack thereof. Just go to another lane and farm the gold to gain a foot up on the Heavy Tank with 525 DPS compared to like 222. Even more if you consider the Heavy Tank isn't as likely to invest in Basic Cannon due to it's other interesting abilities. Once that Helicopter acquires an Iron Hull (Non-upgraded until 13) he can systematically take apart the Heavy Tank one on one as the superior speed and mobility, once again is a method to control the Heavy Tank.
Heavy Tank fires his Missile to take a sizeable chunk of HP? Quickly heal and take advantage of his cooldown and the inability to double-nuke you. (Perhaps can't even nuke you period, mana issues and all...) The Helicopter's speed and mobility are some of the key tools of survival and can also be used to pick apart the Heavy Tank from angles for maximum damage output. Even if you can't land the kill on him, you should be making far more gold than he is due to creeps.
TKF Wrote:Suggestion:
What if the bounty calculated of tanks, was doubled? You buy a heavy tank. It costs 5500 gold and you still sell it at a half price, but the bounty value increase could be 170 gold bounty increase instead of the current 85 bounty increase. You could buy the tank at a price of 5500 gold, but a new tank would greatly increase the bounty. (Doubling of point value of tank)
Applying this would change bounty of a:
-Light tank with a fireball cannon from 171 gold to 183.
-Tinker with energy torpedo would stay at 168, cuz he doesn't cost anything.
-Heavy tank with a upgraded fireball cannon from 254 gold to 338.
-Infernal-robot with 3 upgraded fireball cannons from 489 to 720, (yeah I know, a big difference here)
I would argue this would be a negative change to Battle Tanks. While it would actually favor my playstyle, it highly discourages use of the bigger tanks and encourages use of Hulls instead. Rushing a bigger tank wasn't even viable against competent players, this change would only further ruin them. Oh, and everyone and their mother playing with Gold Hull/Laser Helicopters doesn't sound very refreshing as much as I'd probably win anyway. This change would also burn the better players who actually have the gold to afford a better tank, with weapons at that...
TKF Wrote:Summary:
-Weak tanks with a lot of weapons can be worth the same as a strong tanks with few weapons
-Double the effect the tank value contribute on bounty?
Bad idea... or... :?:
To summarize my argument, the bounty system is still far too lenient to those who don't play well, and this change would only send Battle Tanks further in the wrong direction in terms of endgame.
The point of my suggestion is that the better tanks also have overall powerful abilities. It's very stupid to buy gold hull when you are light tank, instead of buying heavy tank. You are actually weaker than the heavy tank, while you're worth a little more. Also heavy tank got stronger abilities. Changing the helicopter into air ship will also provide you with stronger abilities as well as more hp.
They have almost same amount of hit points, but the airship also have stronger abilities, and 20 more speed than the helicopter. I find it better to buy a air ship than a steel hull first.
Kenny Wrote:I would argue this would be a negative change to Battle Tanks. While it would actually favor my playstyle, it highly discourages use of the bigger tanks and encourages use of Hulls instead.
I see that the hull does become a more tempting choice instead of stronger tanks in my suggestion. Also that you dislike the idea of tanks being worth more. I could also have included that the hulls also increase the bounty by itself with 50% or 100%. But I don't know if that's possible as all the items is using same point value system.
As for the tanks, a easy change can be done if their point value is doubled. They still can be sold for half the gold value.
Code:
Player - Add ((Point-value of (Buying unit)) / 2) to (Owner of (Buying unit)) Current gold
-> Double the tank point value
Player - Add ((Point-value of (Buying unit)) / 4) to (Owner of (Buying unit)) Current gold
Kenny Wrote:...Even if you can't land the kill on him, you should be making far more gold than he is due to creeps.
It's not so much difference, don't forget that the tanks also have the tank cannon skill. But most likely the weaker tank perhaps has a weapon or 2 more, so more dps and a hull. Also possible to own the unskilled heavy tank player if you're quite good BT player. That could be a little hard.
I just have to say... The Airship and Sky Tank suck.
I think we should play a game so I can show you exactly what I'm talking about. Taking apart superior tanks with a Helicopter is something I do all the time. Though if the entire team shifts into bigger tanks it can be a bit problematic if the rest of my team is left in the stone age.
Well kenny, i am seriously interested in your games now. Not that i dont believe you or anything like that, dont get me wrong, but because you keep mentioning in almost all of your posts (from very obvious to slightly hidden) that you are some kind of BT-god. I will not argue with you about wether you are good or not, but it seems like you never loose a game and are always the best player in all of you games, so a few replays would be nice , who knows, i might learn a lot from you.
If anything i said here is completely wrong, pls correct me and excuse me for that.
Well I tried to own the enemy with just a heli. Even worse is that I restricted myself to iron hull. Even though it meant a few deaths, it was possible to own with just helicopter. But in this case our enemies weren't that good. Against mediocre players this is possible, but Doesn't necesary mean that you are a BT gosu like player.
Yeah, usually when I'm facing such an incompetent team they've left the game in half the time. However, considering how often enemies are capable of stalling me and/or my team it takes something like [attachment=2] to get something like [attachment=1]
Note that all of the control points have a Barricade on them. Though now that I look at the minimap it would appear my team was handicapped that game, so bad example.
because of the somewhat unique combination of a competent defense and a bunch of army whores (At least in the second half, when they had nowhere to go). The imbalance that is the Antigrav's ultimate didn't help matters much either. Some tank worth a tenth of what mine is, capable of shutting down my offense like that while (what should be) the real problem is in the process of respawning? Pleeeaaase.
Or games like [attachment=1] that stay like [attachment=0] because the army whores are kept to a minimum.
Classic Kenny, probably played 20 games straight with that item/tank build... Then I ran into clones of said item/tank build, sometimes even from my friends who usually don't manage to fare as well... So I moved on and tried other things since people seem to jump to the conclusion that one build is better than the other. The Helicopter/Sky Tank with short lasers would be a prime example of this. I should probably mention I don't play rush games...
And TKF, it's not a matter of staying as a Helicopter with an Iron Hull, it's a matter of staying as a Helicopter with an Iron Hull until either you get weapons or the entire enemy tank lineup is stacked with so much hitpoints/nukes you have no choice but to convert. Just hold out as long as reasonably possible. If you're ahead and doing well, there's little need to sacrifice potential offensive (and gold-making) ability. If you think you'll find yourself getting walled in behind your Control Points or base because of the threat of enemy nukes as they grab new tanks, then maybe it's time to grab a new one yourself.
The sooner you get weapons, the sooner you make gold. The sooner you make gold, the sooner you get weapons. The vicious two-way street that brings me to the top almost every single time. Keep the money in mind, keep the win in mind. If the opponents somehow last when I get 5X Light Plasma Guns/Iron Hull/Helicopter, I usually manage to save up long enough to grab a Frost-Robot or at least a Heavy Tank and go back to my killing ways.
Well, those are some nice screenshots, thank you for that. I must admit i like the way you try out those new builds and such. I try to do that too most of the time (not always as succesfull as on your screens, but nonetheless its still my pleasure) and i admit i try out builds of other ppl too sometimes (that way i discovered the usefullness of the deat tank (or what is it called again?)). But if all games you play are like this, then what server do you play on? Because i find myself playing against other skillfull players in lets say 30-50% of my games (some are just full of noobs, you cant help that). But when i wasn't, so i was playing against those 'noobs' (i really hate that word, but too late to invent another right now), they usually leave so fast that i will never get to the point i that i am still playing with 8ppl in the game with a kill-death ratio of 80-5 or something like you were.
But still, might wanna play vs you one day, i am always eager to learn!
(that said, makes me think of a "battle tanks forum"-game/tournament )
Ow yeah, sorry for going really off-topic, psycho can you move these posts if necesarry?
Also the formula has flattened from 8.26, so you get much less for killing super expensive enemy tanks now. A bit more for tinkers, since the standard minimum bounty has been raised to 125 gold, while the item value counted to increased bounty has decreased.
Someone like me find the bounty to bit much flattened, so therefore I thought the initial tank value could increase, which is the main topic, so the juggernauts don't think the tank value don't count that much.
i dont like big tanks without good weapons, too... as the enemy and for myself...
but psy is right, then everyone will just buy hulls.. and buying a big tank without good weapons already handicaps you, because cannot farm gold as fast as players with less hp but more firepower, except if you prevent those from farming...
and again, there could be limits for the items / tank-cost ratio or a time where you cant buy big tanks (perhaps in 3 steps, start tanks, midgame tanks, lategame tanks), but that would just make bt more complicated than needed...
to the heavy tank players here: do you skill the board cannon? i think thats a replacement for weapons, and if that ability is weakened big tanks shouldnt be as good... or let the killer earn a higher amount of exp, so that the players who dont kill much dont even level well while they simply wait for money
just some ideas... perhaps someone is inspired by them but i myself cant really say much about it, it just were my thoughts
i still like the idea, that bigger tanks (thunder tank and bigger) are only available after 30-40 minutes. then you have to buy a hull or start with demolisher/antigrav/gobo shredder
same with weapons, weapons up to 3000Gold are available from start, 3000-8000 after 20minutes (maybe 15) and >8000 after 30minutes (maybe 40) ... or something like this.
i think that would be solve a few problems and would make the game more interesting, because everybody has big weapons but low hw a few mins..
and i think then it is easier to save your money for bigger tanks (buy heli + light plasma at start, then a mid hull, after 20mins a fear megaic maybe and after 40mins a demon tank - because when you have only heli + hull, the other players dont have heavy or air ship, which are rly hard to kill with heli)
, who knows, i might learn a lot from you. 
(are you russian or something?)
