The Anti-Tinker Movement Thread

[Kenny]

General Comparison

Tinker is free. 1,250 if you want to factor in a hull, but with a towering lineup of abilites (oh yes, much pun intended) it isn't necessary unless you want to take an also-viable combat build. Or there's a good enemy Demolisher. Though you could just stay well out of range and sneak a couple weapons in the towers for use as you go.

While the Antigrav will slightly edge out the (non-upgraded iron hull) Tinker in hitpoints, it also costs more. Much more if the Tinker passes on the hull in favor of killing power. Killing power that exponentially increases as the game goes on. And well, the Antigrav doesn't get an immediate option to increase hit points by 500 (with gold naturally) as necessary...

There is also a versatility advantage with the Tinker. If your Tinker is severely mismatched against your opponents, no big deal. The Tinker was free, even if you bought a hull that will still carry 100% over to your next choice, but you lose 50% of the Antigrav's price for switching. And since the Tinker is very capable of duking it out until it can afford a Sky Tank or whatever, well 750+ gold isn't anything to sneeze at.

Blink? More like FAIL

The following is a direct comparison of the Tinker's Blink and the Antigrav's "Blink".

1. Tinker's Blink is instantaneous in terms of effect, which allows for more precision with time and positioning. Which simplified, means more effective ambushes and retreats. Antigrav's version is very slow by comparison. Sure, the lack of speed could prove to be an asset, just that it's very unlikely to impossible outside of creep farming and potentially sweeping up everything in between your blink point.

2. Aside from mines, and/or whatever ultimate you gave the Tinker, the Tinker has no other combat abilities to consider. Yes there's the tower and modules if applicable, but once they are implemented they may as well be considered passive. This means the Tinker will be far more likely to have all the mana he needs for combat purposes, while if the Antigrav picked up more than two mana-using skills it will only be capable of using those two outside of battery application.

3. Perhaps greatest of all, Tinker's version of the ability to BLINK-DODGE. For those who may or may not be unaware, once enemy projectiles, whether from weapons or tank abilities, are homing in on your tank... A quick Q + Click means anything already in the air will not hit you unless it's a specific area of effect like Flamestrike, Blizzard, etc. This means you may potent abilities can be nullified with an ability from a free tank.

As for the rest of their abilities...

Antigrav's abilities can for the most part be replicated with another tank. Outside of a combo such as hovering in and landing a damaging nuke or something. Though at times you might just prefer landing a double-nuke instead...

The Basic Tank/Helicopter/Demolisher have similiar AoE abilities, just the Antigrav has one that isn't an ultimate and also stuns in an area in addition to damage (though roughly halved). As for the towers, no other tank has anything similiar (outside of BUYING lost towers, but eh...) or as effective as this free tank ability.

As for the Antigrav's Ultimate, sure it could save you every now and then in conjunction with the Antigrav's version of Blink or allow for greater positioning for you and/or your team. But going by the tooltip it doesn't appear to do any damage which makes it a bit underwhelming... Though admittedly by the time the Tinker gets Mines or whatever it probably isn't so hot either. (Subject to experience with 8.24)


Sheesh, the whole giant post thing is something I'm not used to... Yes, the Antigrav itself isn't a particularly impressive vehicle, but the Tinker is free and infinitely greater than most starting vehicles. That's my opinion on the Tinker, some other people want to chip in two cents?

[TKF]

Lol I can't vote no... The major weakness with the tinker is that it doesn't have tank cannon skill. It depends on towers, which is his "weapon". Also no damage skills. Teleport is quite imba (I use it to dodgde 1-shot kill from heavy tank), That I agree upon. But the tinker is able to hold against demolisher and weaker tanks, but when the heavy tank and air ship comes, the towers will be destroyed. But the tinker is free and the towers gives him a great advantage. Still I think the tinker is ok as it is, but I haven't tried the new ultimate yet.

[Exodus]

I fixed that poll ...

Well, you are basically saying that Tinker is too strong and Anit Grav is too weak? I think Tinker is ok, since he only has passive skills. Anti Grav might be too weak, I think I'll change the ulti a bit ...

[TKF]

In comparison with light tank, which has 1000 hp, for the price of 800, the anti grav doesn't get any bonus as light tanks big brother and have 1500 hit points and costs 1500.

[SirJoghurt]

well, nice that you write so much..but... Tinker is only "imba" if the Player who use it is "imba" (like me lol).. same with the other Tanks

but most "Tinker" Player dont know how to act after the "middle game" has startet.. (after 15 to 20 min.), when the first bigger Tank is choosen by an enemy you must know how to go on against this with a Tinker..

... so plz.. this is, i dont know. 3 Post of someone who thinks this or that is imba.. how often you play 5 times a week ? well not enough to undestand i think, how to use this or that Tank, which deppends on the situation in the game.

So, just "learn" the different Strategies...cause i change very often from Tinker to HeavyT..and i got no Problems before or after changing to this with the enemy Tinkers, because most people dont know what to do then.. ^^

so this not imba,thats just "oh know he did something i didnt expect"..

so get a better "overview" what happens in the actually game or what the enemy might buy or do the next 10 mins.

Dont'play the game, make it


greetz

[WWW_Shadow]

tinker is overpowerd.... there should be food for only 4 tower

anti grav is ok i think there is only a need for a better weapon like i said in another thread.... the ulti is ok i think , idont often use it for a long time cause i buy another tank earlier ulti doesnt matter so much for game play with antigrav

[TKF]

Well the creep towers are efficient creep killers, when you have at least 2-3 of them. With a weapon or two, those towers are more deadly, and scares only noobs. I've experience how evil teamwork with 2-3 tanks/heli, effectively desimates towers almost without deaths, taking advantage of creep waves. A iron hull costs 1250 gold, gives 1000 extra hp, while the light tank costs 800, and have 1000 hp. A tinker with hull does have a few more hp than the light tank. The tinker real strength does rely on the life expectancy of his towers (This is if the tinker go tower tactic). I don't find that the tinker is overpowered.

It was 2 yes and 2 no's earlier...

[Kenny]

well, nice that you write so much..but... Tinker is only "imba" if the Player who use it is "imba" (like me lol).. same with the other Tanks

but most "Tinker" Player dont know how to act after the "middle game" has startet.. (after 15 to 20 min.), when the first bigger Tank is choosen by an enemy you must know how to go on against this with a Tinker..

... so plz.. this is, i dont know. 3 Post of someone who thinks this or that is imba.. how often you play 5 times a week ? well not enough to undestand i think, how to use this or that Tank, which deppends on the situation in the game.

Far, far more than five times a week. Unless those five games were all 1.5+ hours long where I'd feel I'd need a break. I have a great understanding of the game, which may or may not be related to my tendency to smash entire teams. If you actually read my post I'm sure you would have noticed already.

Fact of the matter is, the free tank you start out with is overall more potent than any of the other potential starting tanks (Besides perhaps Helicopter). A free tank, that's what I consider to be the problem. Make the current Tinker at least a 700 gold purchase and put some useless tank in its place.

I am probably one of those "imba" players you speak of. You can bring your Heavy Tank to the fray after farming up massive g's from a free Tinker, I'm still highly likely to smash it with a Helicopter regardless. I perceive the problem to be, FREE TANK > 2,200 Gold Tank.

So, just "learn" the different Strategies...cause i change very often from Tinker to HeavyT..and i got no Problems before or after changing to this with the enemy Tinkers, because most people dont know what to do then.. ^^

so this not imba,thats just "oh know he did something i didnt expect"..

so get a better "overview" what happens in the actually game or what the enemy might buy or do the next 10 mins.

Aside from the rare times I actually don't know an enemy tank is headed my way (Just about never when it comes to neutral factories) nothing in this game surprises me anymore. From the four-Tinker teams (Gee you would think that were indication enough there is a problem here) to the mass Troop Command/Factory/Upgrade teams, to playing psychological warfare by saying "I HAVE A BOMB!", unless the rest of my team sucks like mad I will most likely mop the floor with them.

Dont'play the game, make it


greetz

My enemy team smashed, courtesy of me, 80%+ of the time. I am by no means complaining because I might actually get a fluke loss from time to time, I am complaining because this is what I would consider imbalance. I'm probably one of the best players there are, but you know what? That doesn't mean the Tinker is or isn't imbalanced, that's my stance. A free tank being stronger than any of the 2,200- gold tanks as indicated from my own usage and from the usage of my enemies. That alone cries imbalance in my perspective.

When was the last time you actually got some use out of the Antigrav or Demolisher? Outside of blowing up the occassional poor guy to walk across a Demolisher minefield or something. Yes, a Heavy Tank or Guardian will very likely smash up the Tinker's beloved towers left unchecked. Those aren't 2,200- gold tanks though, those are 4,500+ gold tanks. If some guy actually rushes a Heavy Tank or Guardian with like one weapon, I know from experience he is going to be in more and more terrible shape as the game goes on. Due to influence FROM A FREE TANK no less.

[Game Hunter]

I wouldn't consider Tinker imbalanced. In fact, I don't think it's possible to use him after a while because his main purpose is defense, so if you did well you can upgrade into something nice and finish up; if you didn't do so well, you can get some HP and be prepared for a lot of defending (although in situations where a Tinker is the only thing keeping your base from dying, I doubt there's a chance for a comeback). In a "good" game, you could probably use him for up to 30 minutes before he becomes a moot point, at which point you'd better have enough cash for something else. Now, I'll list pros/cons then get to your stuff:

Good uses for Tinker:
- Defense (obv)
- Early-game farming. Like TKF said, if you can get 2-3 towers going and healthy, that's a lot of gold you can get, especially with the level 2 Cannons (the level ones seem to die FAST). If you already have Lasers, you're either really far ahead in terms of level or should have swapped vehicles by now.
- Teleporting. This works both offensively and defensively: at this point a Tinker would have to save up a bit, but I think Troop Command is still pretty viable. Towers as usual, and TP-force an unsuspecting enemy into death (twice if you're lucky). Lately I've been choosing at LEAST one level of TP over Repair, sometimes altogether (as towers/mods are given if you're going tinker-builder). Defensively has been covered: in a single word, missile-dodging.

Bad uses for Tinker:
- Late-game. Now Tinker stands a chance if he's got a Gold Hull (why didn't you get a HT though?) and some weapons, but he's not built for it. None of his skills work well with a gung-ho mode other than Teleport, and oftentimes the Tinker is too weak to be using short-range.
- Anti-Siege enemies. If they start getting Siege Packs, back off while you can, because they're going to rip through you so fast you'll crap your pants. I've seen situations where there is a heavy load of Tinkers on one side: one Siege Pack and they crumbled in a way that it wasn't even satisfying. Heavy Tanks are usually included on this list, although you should be considering a new vehicle by the time they are.
- Inexperienced players. I wish there was a way to let people know that buying a vehicle is a good idea when you're starting out your BTanks career, as I've seen Ice Cannons on an otherwise-naked Tinker. It's pretty sad. :cry:

Most of your argument rests on a comparison between Tinker and the Antigrav. I have my own quirks about that tank (it's just a weird cost where you can't get an "ideal" weapon for him, 'cause not everyone likes the Glaive Thrower), but if we compare the Tinker to Heli or Light Tank, things become a bit different.

There is also a versatility advantage with the Tinker. If your Tinker is severely mismatched against your opponents, no big deal. The Tinker was free, even if you bought a hull that will still carry 100% over to your next choice, but you lose 50% of the Antigrav's ((note: or any other tank's))price for switching. And since the Tinker is very capable of duking it out until it can afford a Sky Tank or whatever, well 750+ gold isn't anything to sneeze at.

Just wanna point out that this is because Tinker CAN'T play the late-game. If he had to be bought like the other vehicles, you wouldn't see nearly as many Tinkers: one as a possible necessity early on (not sure if they're part of a "pro" game often) and that'd be it. Anti-grav, on the other hand, can survive a Heavy Tank shot, and adding just an upgraded Iron Hull gives him plenty of HP to survive on defense or multi-battles.

Also, if a Tinker is saving up for ONLY a Sky Tank, that's still not much firepower. The enemy probably already has an HT (with appropriate weapons) before your ST and is beating the crap out of your neutral points.

While the Antigrav will slightly edge out the (non-upgraded iron hull) Tinker in hitpoints, it also costs more. Much more if the Tinker passes on the hull in favor of killing power. Killing power that exponentially increases as the game goes on. And well, the Antigrav doesn't get an immediate option to increase hit points by 500 (with gold naturally) as necessary...

I dunno, I'm not sure where the Tinker's power "exponentially increases". Are you talking about Laser towers? Siege Pack them to hell: it's a great investment considering they'll also be used on all of the enemy's buildings anyway. Farther teleport? If you're not ready to kill a Tinker quickly and efficiently by late-game, regardless of where he goes, you need some work on your early-game. Troop Command (and upgrades)? Every tank after (and including) Air Ship has means of wiping out Reinforcements in one shot, and the Tinker's HP might plummet quite a bit in the process.

About Antigrav's "Blink": you've very right to put it in quotes, because it's not Blink at all. It's called Jump. It lets you move quickly and over terrain, and (here's why it's useful) has a very low MP cost and cooldown. Naturally it looks a lot like a half-assed Teleport, but it can be used over and over again, whereas another TP will take another minute. I don't think you can blink-dodge with Jump, but the Antigrav also has HP to survive the attack, so it's mostly unnecessary, as you can Jump away to the nearest factory, heal up, and Jump back while their missile is still 2/3s away from cooling.

I've been in situations where a Tinker prevails, but it's typically with the support of non-Tinker vehicles letting me set up in the first place: two or even three mid tanks (neither or which are a bad idea) will shred towers if there's nothing else in the way. Troop Command can't be used instantly anymore, so that's out the window. Basically, it's a good support unit and (obv) requires support to be useful: outside of that, a lone Tinker will fall to an opponent that know what they're doing.

EDIT: Mm, one last thing. I think you're really complaining more about how the other tanks are less useful, rather than the Tinker being too good. Try to go more into detail about improving the Antigrav or Demolisher if you want...I could see some better things about them (up damage on that cone shot of the Demo's, widen AoE on Antigrav's Plasma thing). Those two aside, Light Tanks and Helis can probably beatdown most Tinkers in 1v1.

[Kenny]

There's nothing I feel needs to be said about the first half. Onto the second...

Bad uses for Tinker:
- Late-game. Now Tinker stands a chance if he's got a Gold Hull (why didn't you get a HT though?) and some weapons, but he's not built for it. None of his skills work well with a gung-ho mode other than Teleport, and oftentimes the Tinker is too weak to be using short-range.

Then again, why not just grab a Helicopter with an upgraded Iron Hull and a few light weapons? I'm far more likely to do something useful with a 2,500 HP Helicopter than a Heavy Tank I find.

- Anti-Siege enemies. If they start getting Siege Packs, back off while you can, because they're going to rip through you so fast you'll crap your pants. I've seen situations where there is a heavy load of Tinkers on one side: one Siege Pack and they crumbled in a way that it wasn't even satisfying. Heavy Tanks are usually included on this list, although you should be considering a new vehicle by the time they are.

One problem... This free tank (The Tinker) actually got someone gullible enough to buy that item of limited usefulness. Ability to destroy buildings is great and all, but we're not only dealing with the Tinker's buildings, we're dealing with the computer buildings and whatever new gear the Tinker decides to bring into the equation. While you're a bit short on change by at least 1,250 gold.

-Inexperienced players. I wish there was a way to let people know that buying a vehicle is a good idea when you're starting out your BTanks career, as I've seen Ice Cannons on an otherwise-naked Tinker. It's pretty sad. :cry:

As opposed to on the Tinker's towers where you don't have to worry about being fragile unless of course your opponents have scrapped up enough gold for one of the well-known Tinker destroyers. But that doesn't matter much, as the Tinker (hopefully) bought nothing that doesn't need to be replaced for a while. Heavy Tanks/Guardians? They're probably in bad shape for the endgame. Siege Packs? Money down the drain, can't kill buildings if you can't kill the opposition repeatedly to actually get use out of the thing.

All you would really do with the aforementioned options is force the Tinker to change early. Nothing that really breaks the Tinker's game.

Most of your argument rests on a comparison between Tinker and the Antigrav. I have my own quirks about that tank (it's just a weird cost where you can't get an "ideal" weapon for him, 'cause not everyone likes the Glaive Thrower), but if we compare the Tinker to Heli or Light Tank, things become a bit different.

Helicopter reigns supreme in the cheap tanks bracket. And the rushed 4,000g-5,500g tanks bracket. If only because most people seem to think blasting you with nukes before their weapons (or lack thereof) actually inflict enough damage to result in death.

Just wanna point out that this is because Tinker CAN'T play the late-game. If he had to be bought like the other vehicles, you wouldn't see nearly as many Tinkers: one as a possible necessity early on (not sure if they're part of a "pro" game often) and that'd be it. Anti-grav, on the other hand, can survive a Heavy Tank shot, and adding just an upgraded Iron Hull gives him plenty of HP to survive on defense or multi-battles.

Antigrav, with... Iron Hull. That's a regret waiting to happen late game. Tinker can survive a Heavy Tank shot too courtesy of Blink-Dodge. With an upgraded hull, at full hit points it means the Heavy Tank will have to work for the kill even if the missile hits the Tinker. The problem is you spent 2,500 gold on dead weight. Hit points that contribute very little to your killing power, thus killing your growth rate and late game usefulness especially if an opponent like me takes advantage of that.

Also, if a Tinker is saving up for ONLY a Sky Tank, that's still not much firepower. The enemy probably already has an HT (with appropriate weapons) before your ST and is beating the crap out of your neutral points.

When I say something, I always say it under the guise you have a few decent starter weapons. Decked out Basic Magic can do the trick actually. Then you factor in your allies (often I just look at them as distractions and opportunities to cash in on a good kill) and how often opponents seem to love retreating from the field at 20% health, and I have more than enough gold for my purposes.

I dunno, I'm not sure where the Tinker's power "exponentially increases". Are you talking about Laser towers? Siege Pack them to hell: it's a great investment considering they'll also be used on all of the enemy's buildings anyway. Farther teleport? If you're not ready to kill a Tinker quickly and efficiently by late-game, regardless of where he goes, you need some work on your early-game. Troop Command (and upgrades)? Every tank after (and including) Air Ship has means of wiping out Reinforcements in one shot, and the Tinker's HP might plummet quite a bit in the process.

I'm talking about weapons. If you actually get a Siege Pack, all you did was throw away at least 1,250 of your gold, forcing me to adapt much like you did. Except I'll buy a tank and/or weapons that prove to be a bit more lasting. I influenced you to buy a 2,500 gold item that is useless for non-buildings, you influenced me to change tanks and/or build. Overall, the buyer of the Siege Pack gets shafted unless the Tinker is a newbie.

About Antigrav's "Blink": you've very right to put it in quotes, because it's not Blink at all. It's called Jump. It lets you move quickly and over terrain, and (here's why it's useful) has a very low MP cost and cooldown. Naturally it looks a lot like a half-assed Teleport, but it can be used over and over again, whereas another TP will take another minute. I don't think you can blink-dodge with Jump, but the Antigrav also has HP to survive the attack, so it's mostly unnecessary, as you can Jump away to the nearest factory, heal up, and Jump back while their missile is still 2/3s away from cooling.

Ah yes, thanks for reminding me of the name of that ability. The name probably eluded me because the ability is full of suck. Unless some undocumented changes to the Antigrav occured since 8.23, the cooldown isn't as low as you seem to think (From what I recall, at least 2/3 the Blink cooldown) and the mana cost is roughly 70% of an equivalent level Antigrav ability. Save the batteries for when you actually have useful abilities you can fall back on like from that of a Frost Robot.

I've been in situations where a Tinker prevails, but it's typically with the support of non-Tinker vehicles letting me set up in the first place: two or even three mid tanks (neither or which are a bad idea) will shred towers if there's nothing else in the way. Troop Command can't be used instantly anymore, so that's out the window. Basically, it's a good support unit and (obv) requires support to be useful: outside of that, a lone Tinker will fall to an opponent that know what they're doing.

EDIT: Mm, one last thing. I think you're really complaining more about how the other tanks are less useful, rather than the Tinker being too good. Try to go more into detail about improving the Antigrav or Demolisher if you want...I could see some better things about them (up damage on that cone shot of the Demo's, widen AoE on Antigrav's Plasma thing). Those two aside, Light Tanks and Helis can probably beatdown most Tinkers in 1v1.

I daresay 1v1 my opponent is screwed if I'm a Tinker. Rush Heavy Tank? No problem, I don't mind if you throw away your money. I will continue to farm gold (and you) with a Helicopter while you wonder why you decided to make the change. The Tinker is the closest thing to a wildcard this game has. In those rare instances it is truly 1v1 for a while, I've yet to find an opponent that knows enough to stop me.

[SirJoghurt]

Kenny, sorry but you write too much... if your not able to play against a Tinker.. when your half Team is "n00b" ... live with it... is the other Team "n00b" .. and your Tinker...well 0wn ? or not... it doesnt matter if you play Tinker from start or that it is a "free unit"... its a Support"Defense unit.. to get in atttack with it.. needs a good Player.

And the troop tactic your talking about, its hard yes.. but you can beat it, with a "good" Team...

Your talking from puplic gAmes ?

..well there are many things that can happen LEaver/afkler/n00bs

so, a puplic is a puplic game, always different.. sometimes no leaver..sometimes after 2 min., then its maybe 3 vs. 5 .. so imbalanced, only if the 5 Players are good, they will win...

for example,in a CW, it's not easy for Tinker, cause ? Good Players in both Teams... without leavers..the better Team will win..


i really dont know.. wheres your problem..take a demolisher, or a light Tank, and get the first Towers down.. Tinker got a Problem

it's a Team game you know.. and if you play "puplic" hope that your Team doesnt play first Time

[Kenny]

Kenny, sorry but you write too much... if your not able to play against a Tinker.. when your half Team is "n00b" ... live with it... is the other Team "n00b" .. and your Tinker...well 0wn ? or not... it doesnt matter if you play Tinker from start or that it is a "free unit"... its a Support"Defense unit.. to get in atttack with it.. needs a good Player.

Like I said in my previous posts, I can and will take enemy Tinkers and their towers apart eventually. But why does a free tank give me more trouble than a tank that actually costs gold? And for that matter, why do you even bother responding to my post without even reading it, assuming there's a lack of skill/experience involved when I'm probably one of the best players at this game?

I don't care if I'm God at this game and eventually destroy everything, that doesn't mean a free tank that can often hold its own against tanks that cost gold is balanced.

And the troop tactic your talking about, its hard yes.. but you can beat it, with a "good" Team...

Your talking from puplic gAmes ?

..well there are many things that can happen LEaver/afkler/n00bs

With a good team sure. But I never really made comments on Troop Command with this thread. Though on the subject of Troop Command, I'd consider that to be another imbalance. How many weapons do you see improve as your army upgrades either automatically or otherwise? For that matter, hulls. Oh, and they act as deployable meatshields and damage to give you a severe edge. You could bring up area of effect, but the problem is I'd pretty much have to save my area of effect ability just to counter it every single time. He who holds Troop Command dictates the pace of battle. The only real counter to Troop Command is Troop Command. I'm forced to preserve my area of effect abilities just to counter Troop Command or I'll be just plain screwed when it's used. For that matter, even if I do preserve it that's a couple seconds of him taking almost no damage from me and a couple seconds of his damage output doubling unless he's decked out in Psycho Magic or something. In other words, friggin' imbalanced item for 2,500 gold.

so, a puplic is a puplic game, always different.. sometimes no leaver..sometimes after 2 min., then its maybe 3 vs. 5 .. so imbalanced, only if the 5 Players are good, they will win...

for example,in a CW, it's not easy for Tinker, cause ? Good Players in both Teams... without leavers..the better Team will win..

I would very much like to see this non-public community you seem to be suggesting exists. As for the five side if I happen to be on it, as long as they don't excessively feed I tend to take care of business.

i really dont know.. wheres your problem..take a demolisher, or a light Tank, and get the first Towers down.. Tinker got a Problem

The problem as I suggested earlier, is that the Demolisher doesn't carry its weight considering the price tag. You can snipe the Tinker, the Tinker can get a hull. You can blow up his towers, the Tinker makes a tank change and you have at least 1,100 gold wasted on a Demolisher. (The Helicopter is vastly superior)

[Exodus]

Ok Kenny, so you described in a ... well, very detailed way why you think the Tinker is too strong or the other start tanks too weak. Since you obviously have such a good understanding of the game (only little irony intended ...), I'd be glad to hear some suggestions how to change these Tanks to make them more balanced.

Even when I think you are not right regarding the Tinker, I do think that demo and the AG are too weak for their price. As for the jump, the cooldown can be reduced. I also thought about adding damage to the ulti (about 25% of the current HP of the target). The only which you could do with the demolisher is to simply buff some numbers of his skills ... or the harder part, to repace skills.

Regarding the Creeps/Troop Commands, because of the latest changes I think there has to be done something more to counter them (buffing anit-creep-weapons significantly will be one part), like with adding some items which are not too expenisve, e.g. aura-items or the like. I'm currently trying to figure out what would be best.

[TKF]

Maybe increasing the creep damage factor for weapons from 25% to 100% will help.