Change tinker cost to 200 gold?

[Wupti]

What do you guys think?

[UnifiedDoom]

Sounds fair, but I don't want him to be on the random list and I'd also like to see the tank pilot pickable.

[Prog]

Any reasoning?

I'm on the "no" side, you really need to bring up something to convince me.

[eSVau]

This would kill the common tinker+ice cannon tactic

[El_Polacco]

Just disabling on league might save lots of games from overusing tinker . That's not fair that mid mates of tinker have to play passive cause of one guy enjoy having unfighting builder unit...

[RaptorXI]

Only if he was added to the random function.

[stibi-]

yes
you are still able to buy torpedo
lvl 1 artillery/plasma does not kill you anymore so you really are a "tank"
+ add tinker to the random list

[BENNIE.FM]

i think the tinker should cost 200 gold but what happends when you random it? its so gay i wish tinkers were just not in bt at all then some players would learn to play with out having to screw there team for 20 min

and i know tinkers can be really useful at times thats just another reason to have a cost on the tinker

---

i think also maybe wupti pawned by tinker torp on lane thats why this discussion has come up haha jk

[Althend]

No,

Give me a good reason.

[Wupti]

Any reasoning?

I'm on the "no" side, you really need to bring up something to convince me.

well, i just thought about it compared to other tanks and i dont get why this tank should be "free" since it has some nice abilities aswell.
tinker is the only tank who is able to buy the torpedo early game, and we all know long range peak early game which makes it one of the most powerful tactics if played correct. Most people go from tinker to heli after max 5 min so i dont see why people who do this shouldn't have a little catch of merely 100 gold when swapping tank.
The 100 gold won't really affect the buy/sell of tanks when people swap later on.
all in all i just think it should be at same levels as other tanks, if people pick other tanks they have to run aswell, so why is the tinker an exception


@esvau 200 is not much and it can still buy torp, electro, and i doubt u really play those tactics

@bennie no, i never got owned by a tinker lane, but i got bored to death several times

[Althend]

The advantage of long range at begining is a penality at mid game. People try to balance long range when it does autobalance itself.

Making tinker worthing gold

= penalising people swaping tank
= penalising the tiers 1 swap tank strategy (swap between tinker-antigrav-medivac-scout as a support, depending the situation) (yeah ok I am the only one who did it ^__^ )
= no more classic tinker + ice
= making tinker walk to mid/lane at start...



For what gain?

- having the feeling that it would be more fair? (pricely)
- the illusion that all tank (face to face) are at same level (It will never be as long as teamplay is involved)



The tinker has already been penalized by not being able to put weapon in tower.

So point are somehow more important like... More tiers 3/4 tanks!

[Wupti]

The advantage of long range at begining is a penality at mid game. People try to balance long range when it does autobalance itself.

Making tinker worthing gold

= penalising people swaping tank
= penalising the tiers 1 swap tank strategy (swap between tinker-antigrav-medivac-scout as a support, depending the situation) (yeah ok I am the only one who did it ^__^ )
= no more classic tinker + ice
= making tinker walk to mid/lane at start...



For what gain?

- having the feeling that it would be more fair? (pricely)
- the illusion that all tank (face to face) are at same level (It will never be as long as teamplay is involved)



The tinker has already been penalized by not being able to put weapon in tower.

So point are somehow more important like... More tiers 3/4 tanks!

-penalising? as stibi mentioned tinker has been fixed so it actually is a decent tank when staying range,

-when swapping between tanks why shouldn't there be a catch of 100 gold, when you can pick any tank u want to counter enemy tanks?

-be realistic this tactic isn't really used.

-as i already said why is tinker the only tank where you can pick it and teleport to mid?

I know u guys might dont want too many changes in game, but after the fix of tinker it actually is a tank, so why doesn't it cost anything, it's not like 200 gold will ruin you. I only think it's reasonable if tinker gets a cost of 200 (my opinion ofcause). a tank that can survive any skill level 1 (tier 1 tanks) with 4 abilities that aren't useless at all, is free?

[BENNIE.FM]

Ok from game experience last few games i know that tinker torpedo can be very effective especially with players tp to dodge nuke ,this tactic can lead to a very strong strategy and at times leads to you starving the other player

i agree with wupti till that extent

but hrmm i just wish tinker was disabled .......so many guys use it and fail and cause miserable game for others especially in middle,though the map developers have done a good job trying to improve the tinker in such a way that towers don't hold weapons and towers can be walked through

@wupti i have read your post and i agree but 200 means i don't think tinker will be able to hold its presence or have any advantage which it usually needs ,and i know tinker with out the teleport could still be just as good if played well

how about making the cost 150$ so it can't instantly tp

im not sure what the out come of these changes will have i feel it will be bad

[EarthR]

tinker should either cost some gold or get its hp reduced so every single lvl 1 ability kills it.
Imo you cant give a tank that costs 0 advantage for 5 min in mid game (till the enemy tanks abilities get lvl 2). the very fact that it costs 0 should indicate that it should die fast. so anyone playing a tank that costs 0 should know that he will instant die from any ability. This is just common logic and something that is fair imo.

[eSVau]

Player who suck as tinker will also suck with other tanks. Changing its cost or disabling it wouldn't change that.

Althend listed some penalties - especially changing tier1 strategies would suffer. Sometimes gaining an additional 200 gold (or 140g to port) is a pain in the ass.

so many guys use it and fail and cause miserable game for others especially in middle

That's true but mid tinker mostly works because of so much long-range, which wont attack his towers. And most tinkers retreat so that team can't pushed which makes creeps coming in tinker tower range.
But most players are so cheap, the wont buy port breakers or mortar or anything else which would help the team - they go for a 2nd/3rd long range even before a hull. That kind of player who wait with their stun in order to kill steal, etc. - well, thats mid nowadays - i miss the gold old times with strong team players in mid and bad average players on lane. But almost everyone got greedy and lane makes more income...

@esvau 200 is not much and it can still buy torp, electro, and i doubt u really play those tactics

It's an early adaption of the boring "no skill" porter-poison-tactic. On lane vs an average player it (might) works, but playing lane sucks anyway

[BENNIE.FM]

tinker should either cost some gold or get its hp reduced so every single lvl 1 ability kills it.
Imo you cant give a tank that costs 0 advantage for 5 min in mid game (till the enemy tanks abilities get lvl 2). the very fact that it costs 0 should indicate that it should die fast. so anyone playing a tank that costs 0 should know that he will instant die from any ability. This is just common logic and something that is fair imo.

i like this argument ,hrmm just the fact this may lead to all those lower skilled tinker players feeeding and causing alot more problems xD

[eSVau]

tinker should either cost some gold or get its hp reduced so every single lvl 1 ability kills it.
Imo you cant give a tank that costs 0 advantage for 5 min in mid game (till the enemy tanks abilities get lvl 2). the very fact that it costs 0 should indicate that it should die fast. so anyone playing a tank that costs 0 should know that he will instant die from any ability. This is just common logic and something that is fair imo.

i like this argument ,hrmm just the fact this may lead to all those lower skilled tinker players feeeding and causing alot more problems xD

Yes, i didn't liked the little hp increase much tinker got for their weaken towers (hp, attack power, no weapon carry).

[EarthR]

tinker should either cost some gold or get its hp reduced so every single lvl 1 ability kills it.
Imo you cant give a tank that costs 0 advantage for 5 min in mid game (till the enemy tanks abilities get lvl 2). the very fact that it costs 0 should indicate that it should die fast. so anyone playing a tank that costs 0 should know that he will instant die from any ability. This is just common logic and something that is fair imo.

i like this argument ,hrmm just the fact this may lead to all those lower skilled tinker players feeeding and causing alot more problems xD

those who feed will continue to feed the hp reduction doenst change that
on the other hand they might actually start using tanks or change to them fast(and we will stop seeing tinkers after 20-30 min) since they will realize they cant survive

my point is that with tinkers current hp it can be played as a tank anywhere in map (lanes/mid) with ease so that makes it a playable tank and it should cost something.

Another solution is to take away from tinker all damage skills (towers), basically make tinker not be able to build towers anywhere in map except the points where you can build beacon,barr, etc. Since it costs 0 it should not have any damaging skills and worst of all it shouldnt be able to create a wall of towers in game which cant be taken out unless you get bigger tanks if both sides are using lr or 2/3 of players use lr

[Wupti]

tinker should either cost some gold or get its hp reduced so every single lvl 1 ability kills it.
Imo you cant give a tank that costs 0 advantage for 5 min in mid game (till the enemy tanks abilities get lvl 2). the very fact that it costs 0 should indicate that it should die fast. so anyone playing a tank that costs 0 should know that he will instant die from any ability. This is just common logic and something that is fair imo.

i like this argument ,hrmm just the fact this may lead to all those lower skilled tinker players feeeding and causing alot more problems xD

Another solution is to take away from tinker all damage skills (towers), basically make tinker not be able to build towers anywhere in map except the points where you can build beacon,barr, etc. Since it costs 0 it should not have any damaging skills and worst of all it shouldnt be able to create a wall of towers in game which cant be taken out unless you get bigger tanks if both sides are using lr or 2/3 of players use lr

Tinker is a tank now, but i don't support this solutions or bennie's "just remove it" because i think tinker is a decent tactic like any other tactic. however it needs a little balance and i thought a 200 gold cost was the best solution since it wouldn't change anything radically.

btw you can just make it randomable, then esvau can still go tinker + ice cannon and people who REALLY hate playing tinker can always just change tank if they random it, random = +150 gold sell tinker = -100 gold which means they can still buy what they usually does and wait for 25 gold which they should have around the time they bought their weapon

[LIoOoOoIL]

I wouldnt mind too, to raise the cost to 200g, since the Tinker is able to (some points, which got already mentioned), like using Weaps/Items, attacking Skill/Towers.
At all, it wouldnt changed that much anyway (but probably still more fair).