When Choose the Demoliser?

[TKF]

I usually almost never go demolisher cuz you get only a weak weapon at normal games. I like to do Demolisher with electro cannon after 5 min tactic.

1. Buy demolisher (1900) at start with basic magic (1111) ... after 5 min you maybe/probably have 2 basic magics if you not so unlucky.
2. Buy demolisher after 5-6 mins as tinker with electro cannon (2700) + (75) Tp cost
Lets take a practical comparison.

Example 1: You buy a demolisher (1900) with basic magic (1111). Cuz of the weak weaponpower, it's hard to earn cash with it at start. Maybe you can afford a another basic magic after 5 min. (If you can afford a much better weapon after 5 min, you probably encountered much less skilled players.) Also the demolisher have the powerful skill: mines, which may give safe kills if you know how to use it properly and with some luck. But nonetheless, not giving much in the first 5 min cuz it's low level at start, and you don't have time to plant so many mines before 5 min have passed... Also demolisher has slower income rate on creep kills than a heli or light tank with better weapon at start. After 5 min you tank is about lv4-6 (7?). So why go demolisher when you can gamble on tinker and...

Example 2: Buy a electro cannon (2700) as tinker. If you can get the first tower finished at start, without getting hunted down and lose your tower before it's finished, You may get a safe foothold. A tower with electro cannon is quite dangerous and also provide safe income with creeps kills at right position. Little chance of losing tower, unless enemy teamwork of 2-3 tanks will overpower it effective if unsupported by nearby friendly tanks/another tinker tower. Normally this tactic will give the successful tinker normally about 1500-2200 gold after 5 min (force gold included), depends how much you lucked the creeps and perhaps a tank kill. Take care and not die to much since each death cost 75 (teleport costs). If you can afford a demolisher after 5 min, you get a 2000 hp demolisher with a electro cannon. You're now probably about lv3-5.

You can try to do this same thing with energy torpedo (2800), but will most likely earn less gold since it has very slow fire rate and lower dps than electro cannon. On the other hand, increased chance to luck kill enemy tanks. I never go tinker with energy torpedo so I don't know how much you will earn after 5 min. (Maybe a wild guess: 1000-1800 gold)


Many dislikes use of tinker cuz they are so easy to kill. But many people have very different opinions on tinker noobage...

[SirJoghurt]

sorry, but i never play the Demolisher, last one was 3 month ago...1 round cause a friend asked if we play it for fun... well not many fun

i just don't like the tAnk, not my "gamestyle" ^^


greetz

[TKF]

Well the only reason I choose the demolisher, is cuz it's the only mine layer tank. (The puny tinker/exploder mines can be used first at lv10)

Edit_

Well, only the exploder and demolisher have mines now, as the tinker got fab ulti

[somfing]

TKF if u play on a lane u dont need a 2nd basic
1 (upgr) basic and his ....wave?!? is enought to creep until u have 7,1k ------> skytank ^^


and in the mid i use this catapult?!? skill
- exreme range ^^
- nice dmg

and if u have skill u can kill low hp tanks nere the factory if they wanna heal ^^ h3h3

[TKF]

If I get so lucky, I don't buy a second weapon, but if I die, I buy 1 extra basic, but not more. If I'm at mid I perhaps buy rockets. I never go straight to sky tank, usually I buy heavy tank, but If I doesn't get killed, and do get over 7.1 k, I might go sky tank.

[Tribulation]

I like the Demolisher because of it's mines, but if you find yourself against a defensively playing team, it becomes quite hard to use mines effectively, since the enemy stays (referring to mid) at the cp or moves around in the area in between the little island in mid and their towers, an area which is hard to reach and too dangerous to pile up enough mines for a decent chance to get a kill. In addition to that, you can pretty easily evade mines if you are 1on1 against a Demolisher on a side-lane, since he's the only enemy you have to keep your eyes on. That's why I rarely choose Demolisher, although the artillery shot is pretty nice as well.

[Billy_Talent_ll]

i like demolisher becasue of its wave spell and its hp^^ don´t like the mines spell, he forces enemys to camp, and camping sucks :mrgreen:

[Kenny]

It is pretty fun to have an early Demolisher against non-hulled Tinkers. Especially ones that spent most of their remaining gold on an Energy Torpedo or something so you can snipe them repeatedly and get more gold because of their weapon.

As for the idea of buying a more expensive weapon and changing tanks later... I've toyed with that concept with Rock Catapult, except changing to Helicopter. I can say with confidence that having a tank with more useful combat abilities (Single-target damage ability, area-of-effect and/or basic cannon) and a minor weapon is a better idea than starting as a Tinker with a mediocre weapon. I mean really, if you get the Basic Cannon skill you add 60 passive damage per second in addition to your minor weapon which would match, and at L2 beat, any weapon that isn't Energy Torpedo. And if you actually buy the 750- range weapons, I feel sorry for you against any competent opponent...

[TKF]

Why choose the demolisher?


Firepower efficiency

Code:

(Range/1000)*dps

describes the average effect of weapons and also the rate of xp gained chance compare to the chances for killing the creeps and gaining xp. This formula is very simple, maybe to simple ^^

Calculated with lv1 tank cannon:

Demolisher: Hp 1900, with 1100 gold weapon, firepower efficiency 127 with lv1 tank cannon
Light tank: Hp 1000, with 2200 gold weapons, firepower efficiency 201 with lv1 tank cannon
Anti-grav: Hp 1500, with 1500 gold weapon, firepower efficiency 153 with lv1 tank cannon

Calculated with lv2 tank cannon: (Upgrades on weapons not included)

Demolisher: Hp 1900, with 1100 gold weapon, firepower efficiency 181 with lv2 tank cannon
Light tank: Hp 1000, with 2200 gold weapons, firepower efficiency 255 with lv2tank cannon
Anti-grav: Hp 1500, with 1500 gold weapon, firepower efficiency 207 with lv2 tank cannon

Demolisher is a little more imba than light tank when they reach lv4 and skill tank cannon lv2, so the demolisher is actually at advantage here. That's why you should more often choose the demolisher. But be vary that the demolisher was less creep income than light tank does to total dps.


Demolisher Disadvantage: Less income from creep kills.


Calculated with lv2 tank cannon: (Upgrades on all weapons included)

Approximaxly calculation after 3-4 min gameplay. Tanks incomes spent on weapons upgrades are considered. 2 Possible scenarios calculated in each case for light tank and demolisher.

Demolisher: Hp 1900, with 1666 gold weapon, firepower efficiency 219 with lv2 tank cannon
Demolisher: Hp 1900, with 2222 gold weapon, firepower efficiency 256 with lv2 tank cannon

Light tank: Hp 1000, with 2900 gold weapons, firepower efficiency 315 with lv2tank cannon
Light tank: Hp 1000, with 3332 gold weapons, firepower efficiency 330 with lv2tank cannon

We see here that the income rate by light tank is greater than the demolishers income rate. More weapons increase the probabiliy to get creep kills. Demolisher does lose a little here in killing efficiency, but is also a little stronger than and most likely to win in 1on1 situations.

[Batto]

You shouldnt forget that in a skilled game, the extra hp give another advantage, that is the advantage of dieing less. I dont know what the loss in creep income is between not dieing in the first 5mins or dieing 5 times in those first 5 mins, but i think you still have to keep that in mind!

[TKF]

You have a point there, there is probably a greater chance for the demolisher to get less often killed than a light tank cuz demolisher has more hp. This might be a good reason why you should choose the demolisher.

[Batto]

Yes, since this post i first tried the demolisher and i find myself playing it more and more often these days. You got plenty of strategies with this tank, for example if other team has 2 or more tinkers, you should definetly buy this tank, so many easy kills you get then! But also if other team plays with lots of light tanks in middle field, the mines are really usefull! And so on....

[DerSatan]

playing the demolisher has gained a completely new dimension in my opinion with the change of making creep-only-weapons doing 100% more damage instead of 25%!

now i like playing the demo, buying a multi bow and set it to attack creeps only. one of them will do more dps than ANY other strating weapon combo below 3000 gold, except the rock catapult and the ice cannon, both i have never seen as a starting weapon ever. :lol:

edit: well actually i DID see people starting that way, but i never considered as a serious starting tactic, because they all were noobs, feeded some time and left.

with playing the demo, you will also have enough hp to start with a quite low range tactic (range 800)

the disadvantages are that you cannot upgrade the weapon, neither it attacks tanks, which is ok, because you will kill creeps much faster with this weapons than with any other (starting) one.

i like the bow/demo combo so much that i usually go for 3-4 of them, which makes me levelling and earning money much faster than any other tactic ive experienced before.

i skill mines whenever possible, then cannon, for the single 3rd/5th level ability i chose the artillery. with a little practice you can greatly support your teammmates (i go for the mid with the demo) and even instantly kill unprotected tinkers (at artillery lvl 1) from an insane range.

yeah, my post has become half a guide, but im very happy with this tactic (as you probably noticed 8) )

[Bob666]

i will try this

[Tribulation]

Using a Multibow on Demolisher as starting combination really is nice, I employed that strategy for 4 or 5 games in a row now, and it always worked great or at least fine, if you get a side lane alone. The Demolisher remains superior to light tanks and helis through the high hp and mines, the enemy frequently has to retreat after pushing since they will run into mines sooner or later (except for more experienced players with heli). WIth Multibow creeping becomes easy, you will make a lot of money, especially if you manage to lay siege to his cp, then you can force him to stay there by putting mines everywhere, you can control the enemy creeps with Multibow and Wave. Artillery is great to finish off enemies who stepped on a mine, after some practice, it really pisses people off when you kill them right before they reach their cp with 100hp
I usually went for another weapon between 2-3k and a hull later on, or a big tank, depending on whether or not the enemies chose more weapons or a bigger tank (the latter one would make mines less effective). Either way: you farm really well and you do not die if you play defensively, which is easy since you make kills through mines and are interested in killing creeps.

[jonjon]

Using a Multibow on Demolisher as starting combination really is nice, I employed that strategy for 4 or 5 games in a row now, and it always worked great or at least fine, if you get a side lane alone. The Demolisher remains superior to light tanks and helis through the high hp and mines, the enemy frequently has to retreat after pushing since they will run into mines sooner or later (except for more experienced players with heli). WIth Multibow creeping becomes easy, you will make a lot of money, especially if you manage to lay siege to his cp, then you can force him to stay there by putting mines everywhere, you can control the enemy creeps with Multibow and Wave. Artillery is great to finish off enemies who stepped on a mine, after some practice, it really pisses people off when you kill them right before they reach their cp with 100hp
I usually went for another weapon between 2-3k and a hull later on, or a big tank, depending on whether or not the enemies chose more weapons or a bigger tank (the latter one would make mines less effective). Either way: you farm really well and you do not die if you play defensively, which is easy since you make kills through mines and are interested in killing creeps.

Right on! Except this post was created ages ago so now strategy changes to multibow. I always upgrade artillery first and mines only. At level 4, 480 is such sweet damage. If you have team mates all around you, you allow them to poke them for a bit to claim minor damage and force a retreat and then you use the artillery as they reach their control point. Mines are just there for paranoia purposes and to stop them from pushing. A bonus if they run them over. But I never wait for people to run over mines. Only the ones that migrate from other corridoors die from them. Basically the whole time I'm creeping with my upgraded multibow and claiming kills in the distance. Then I get swarm rockets about 7 minutes later to poke and artillery and increase creep kills.

[Tribulation]

I must say that I do not choose Artillery anymore, since I mostly farm on the side lanes, the Wave is much more efficient there. Artillery is nice for farming enemy tinkers though
Also, mines are efficient. I used to think that people must figure out where I put them, but they don't
I always place them on the healers and right in the lane, or on camping spots, when I see that an enemy keeps on hanging around the same place. People somehow don't adapt much, only really experienced players seem to know how to avoid mines, all others keep running into them, even if they died a couple of times in a mine field. There's a saying in DotA: never follow a techie (the mine laying player in DotA) into the river, it'll be mined for sure. This doesn't seem to apply to BT, it's fairly easy to kill with mines, even against helis, which can dodge them easier than any other starting vehicle.
Mines also farm nicely in mid, even if the player triggering the mine doesn't die: it takes out the entire creep wave

[TKF]

Mines are rather ineffective when they don't kill cuz the enemy got hull and when the annoying helis ONLY fly above the woods. I must lay mines on the back on the CP, cuz some players are quite adept at avoiding mines and flying around the CP to conquer it.

But mines have a serious weakness against mine defuse and radar, and is only good when not being detected or neutralized by high hp vehicles of defusing. Also mines are only defensive, so if your team is good at pushing enemies, mines becomes a waste and useless tactic. It is a good counter against aggressive players and make enemies fear the mines. High psychological fear factor. Trespassing through minefield give the game a special dimension ^^

I usually skill artillery lv1, if there are enemy tinkers. I don't skill jet wave, but tank cannon and mines instead since the demolisher already has quite little firepower.

[jonjon]

Mines are rather ineffective when they don't kill cuz the enemy got hull and when the annoying helis ONLY fly above the woods. I must lay mines on the back on the CP, cuz some players are quite adept at avoiding mines and flying around the CP to conquer it.

But mines have a serious weakness against mine defuse and radar, and is only good when not being detected or neutralized by high hp vehicles of defusing. Also mines are only defensive, so if your team is good at pushing enemies, mines becomes a waste and useless tactic. It is a good counter against aggressive players and make enemies fear the mines. High psychological fear factor. Trespassing through minefield give the game a special dimension ^^

I usually skill artillery lv1, if there are enemy tinkers. I don't skill jet wave, but tank cannon and mines instead since the demolisher already has quite little firepower.

Yeah, like I said I used them for defense purposes only. I don't deliberately pick a spot - I make my placements immediate and inconspicuous. If you're right there, just place it. I try not to waste time. The biggest misconception with mines is that some use it for killing only. (unless you're a trader, you can invis - place a 2500 mine in the most bastard spots). Mines shouldn't play a big role, just a part role so that if people do find your mines annoying, they tele back to base and waste gold to get a radar or mine diffuse. This is why I always upgrade my artillery first.

I don't like it when people use tinkers. On my team or theirs. I discount it as a bad strategy and I encourage both teams not to use it. The only time where I saw someone use tinker well was equipped with a steel hull and was able to lay towers forward and progressively. The idea of being a tinker is to farm and make bucket loads of gold while keeping people back. But as soon as your towers are destroyed, you're pretty much useless. When I'm demolisher, as soon as I see someone place a tower, I artillery it.

I played against 2 reasonably skilled players last night and was able to hold both with demolisher. Came off with 9 kills - 1 death (but I am on dial-up cuz I'm house sitting lmao!) before people started upgrading. Then we lost because 3 of my team members were first/second timers

[Tribulation]

I used to think that people would counter my mine-laying techniques or at least use a heli to fly over the trees, but they don't. I have played Demolisher in about 70% of the games I played over the holidays (at least 2 a per day), and I have NEVER seen someone buy radar or remote defuser.
Either people don't know that they can counter mines that way, or they feel like it's too expensive. Keep in mind that you're screwed if you buy that at the wrong point of time: the player with Demolisher might easily have enough money to afford another weapon, he can switch to farming with Wave, and you wasted a hell lot of money in early game, so you're screwed in no time. My Demolisher strategy almost always worked out fine, unless I screwed up or someone got really fed; I usually did not have a problem in keeping up. If someone gets one of the two cheaper hulls, get a different weapon, you won't have a problem with a Multibow and another weapon, like Fan of Knives or something in that price range. By the time someone can afford an Airship or even a Heavy Tank, you will have enough money for either a 2,5k hull or a bigger tank for yourself. Also, people will not have more than two weapons for under 3k, at the most, they will rather have a Heavy Tank with a Basic Magic, which isn't a problem with a Demolisher, a Multibow and a second weapon, the mines are strong enough to defend until you can upgrade for yourself.
This might not work when you encounter a really good player, but it will in any pub game.