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bot365 · 2011-02-04, 17:33:22

90% team with starting leaver will win. Starting gold is too much to handle for opposition team. Suggestion is to make game restart if there is leaver in first 5 minutes because it makes game too unbalanced and basicly it is waste of time to play game like that.

Althend · 2011-02-04, 17:45:59

False

TKF · 2011-02-04, 20:32:01

Well, with a starting leaver the gold is quite insignificant. The big difference is that the 2 players in mid lane gets more gold and experience than the opposite team with 3 players.

If the leaver had left later, he would be at more disadvantageous for the team due to earned gold cut in half and split among teammates, and the loss of his experience gained.

bot365 · 2011-02-05, 02:30:45

I am talking about no tank leaver in begining. insegnificant, maybe compared to later game gold but in start you farm slowly and any gold is more then welcome + you dont need to split gold in mid among 3 but only 2 players same goes with exp, obviously you havent experienced situation like this i would like to hear from players who know what i am talking about.
I wos refeering to "false" post in this.

Althend · 2011-02-05, 06:39:06

The leaver gold is nothing at begining. One more player that is able to play is always better. If the the team of 5 players lose it is alway because of retard player or really really bad teamplay.
At long term, the differencial of cumulate hp and amount of active item always make the difference.

I don t feel the need to justify more. And concerning experience, i am pretty sure I have more than u. (yes I am an arrogant bitch Big Grin

)

Ger-Dyers-Eve · 2011-02-05, 11:04:48

And yes, your totally right, Althend.
Only the lane-players can have a really cool advantage. The Midplayers are getting in a totally defense style, if the opposite team is not full of fuckin' retards.

bot365 · 2011-02-05, 13:05:40

I havent ever played a league game without some non skilled players. And i see no fun in a game where i play lane def because i have medivac with plasma gun at begining. I wosnt talking about intern/pro games i talk about regular league games and efect of a leaver at begining. If there wos 5 of me i wouldnt be conserned either Big Grin

AGGInator · 2011-02-05, 17:14:18

althend he's skilled as well.
i've played some days ago with him and he was playing against a very good opponent. he dominated and was the best at the end while i was screwed by fatal selfish guys in mid. (they longrangecreeped and never helped, just camped with 5k hp at cp and never used a spell.. )

a big problem of ealy leavers i see is concerned to loadscreen or first seconds leaver. they allow the team to purchase a 1v1 sit. better weap which might be a huge advantage in the first mins.
its very hard to handle a lighttank with elec at lane while u get a weap with 100 range less or just a small tank like scout.

RaptorXI · 2011-02-20, 22:07:19

bot365 · 2011-02-23, 01:08:05

Nice but i talk about first 5 minutes leaver and i didnt say it is imposible but makes big unbalance between teams. If same skill teams team with 5 players can only win if games goes to titan phase where 1 player extra means one more usefull skill. In games where i got late leaver i dont mind it. My suggestion wos to make game restart if player leaves in first 5 minutes of game. because gold difference gets pretty big as time goes by.I think it would improve game play. But if you enjoy playing 4v5 or 5v4 from start it is your right and obviously most people agree with you.

This is my other consern i am sure you think it is not true because your part here is to dispute peoples suggestions and ideas to put yourself on a throne of wisdom. Point of this topic is not braging or crying i just give my oppinion to make gameplay better and there is always for and agains and i trully cant think you prefeer starting game 4v5 then playing 5v5, at least some part of game. This is link to other post i really dislike in a game. http://btanks.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=4006

I will take some time one day and make calculation of gold difference players get in 20 minutes just by standing and doing nothing i think it is pretty big figure.

RaptorXI · 2011-02-23, 19:08:05

bot365 Wrote:90% team with starting leaver will win. Starting gold is too much to handle for opposition team.

My last league game was 5vs4 right from start and they lost: :o . I even played on the lane and didn't feed. http://league.btanks.net/game.php?gameid=8531
And no, I don't enjoy those games, but they are unbalanced for who in your opinion? For the team who gets the leavergold or for the other team with more players? And your calculation, where is it? In my opinion you are not trying to proof anything anything but only claiming.

bot365 · 2011-02-23, 21:08:03

I said i will do calculation when i have time, got much work atm i dont even play my oppinion is that advantage goes to 4 players team. Anyway early leaver changes game conception, and this weekend i will calculate how much to prove my statment. My idea is game shut down, penalty for leaver others nice positive 0. I dont mind going in another game in hope it will be better at least for some time.

bot365 · 2011-03-05, 17:09:14

Ok i did some reserch and i come to this data, i dont believe it is correct but it shows figurativly difference leaver makes in start of a game. I made game 1 player and watched his gold gained without doing anything. Then i split amount of gold he got in 4 or 5 people that would play in team and this are results... I believe i am wrong in many things considering this calculation but still i did some work so dont be too harsh on comments.

TIME 5:03

1 PLAYER
GOLD 6247
STARTING 3000
BONUS 5 MIN 2039
ACUMULATED 1208

4 PLAYERS
BONUS 5 MIN 509
ACUMULATED 302

5 PLAYERS
BONUS 5 MIN 407
ACUMULATED 241

TIME 10:02

1 PLAYER
GOLD 9724
STARTING 3000
BONUS 10 MIN 2281 (dont include previous bonus)
ACUMULATED 1196 (5-10 minute)

4 PLAYERS
BONUS 10 MIN 570
ACUMULATED 299

5 PLAYERS
BONUS 10 MIN 456
ACUMULATED 239

TIME 15:01

1 PLAYER
GOLD 13389
STARTING 3000
BONUS 15 MIN 2469 (dont include previous bonus)
ACUMULATED 1196 (10-15 minute)

4 PLAYERS
BONUS 15 MIN 617
ACUMULATED 299

5 PLAYERS
BONUS 10 MIN 493
ACUMULATED 239

From this i get after 5 minutes if leaver wos at start, 4 team players get +163 gold + leavers starting gold (I am not sure but should be 3000/4 = 750). 750 + 163 = 913 gold advantage in first 5 minutes. In this i would like to mention better farming because of better starting weapons considering gold, and pushing opponents to def and lose gold from their tower. 913 gold dont seem much but inical normal creep value is 15 gold => 913 / 15 = 60 creeps difference. And there is thing of better weapon and much better farming and pushing the lane. And i didnt mention here 2 players spliting middle gold and exp and 3 players splitting same gold and exp i am sure it plays nice part too.

Period between 5-10 dont make so much difference, + new 174 gold to 4 players team at 10-th minute. And period 10-15 + 184 gold for 4 players team. From this i concluded that leaver makes difference and disadvatage to 5 players team if he is early leaver in 0-5 min. and that is why i suggested games abour if there is leaver in this period. I think it does no harm to players and no one would mind if he needs to start new game after 5 minutes because you cant make much difference in that time and that way would be avoided 4v5 games from start.

Obviously there is not much matter considering gold after 5-th minute, so i dont mind leavers after 5-th minute, game can still be played normaly, but minimum 913 gold difference in 5-th minute per team player and i think it is at least 1.2k because of creeps farming, and 2 players mid spliting gold not 3. Latter that differnce becomes more and more worthless and if game lasts long enought 5 player team will take their player advantage to win (if you are lucky to have good team and to be vs not so good team). Latter game leavers dont make so much differnce in game as the early game leaver.

I still strongly support under 5 minutes leaver game aborts and lets play new one it is not problem to rejoin new game, and it could make playing exp much better for players not to farce them to play in 4v5 game from start.

I got another topic about laser tower mid that is total hendicap for laser tower team, laser tower is not needed in league games it supports noobs to outfarm their team mates while they face enemy 2v3 mid with only half of creeps that can get next to that tower to them. More here : http://btanks.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=48&t=4006

I do this to make game play better and more fun for players i know there are peopl winning in all kinds of situations but keep it real early leaver ruins game and it can get easily fixed. Thank you for reading, constructive comments welcome.

wolfheart · 2011-03-07, 16:37:27

i have played like 700 games and all i can say 4v5 with ealy leaver is imba. It puts 5player team so hard posion because almost no player can take any other team player in 1v1. + not talk about some noneskilled players.

Yesterday last game vs good players started heli with plasma ,electro on 5min mark hull upgrade hull some 8 min mark. On 25 min i had 2 electro,plasma,speed+ hunter. Thats imba shit.

091846 · 2011-03-07, 17:27:04

dont be offensive for mid lane ,if you are in number , use repair bot and play defensive , take turn to defence

Althend · 2011-03-07, 18:02:14

wolfheart Wrote:i have played like 700 games and all i can say 4v5 with ealy leaver is imba. It puts 5player team so hard posion because almost no player can take any other team player in 1v1. + not talk about some noneskilled players.

Yesterday last game vs good players started heli with plasma ,electro on 5min mark hull upgrade hull some 8 min mark. On 25 min i had 2 electro,plasma,speed+ hunter. Thats imba shit.

In 5v5, u stil can do heli +2k weapon + light hull + 2.5k weapon for the 8th min. So basically, the leaver just make u get a weapon slightly more expensive.

People are supposed to be able to handle someone with 400 gold advantage... I can show plenty replay of it

**Exodus** · 2011-03-07, 20:02:25

@bot365:
Concerning your calculations, you could have used the mechanics thread, to calculate the income. As it is described there, in a team with less players, the individual player gets more money, but the team as a whole gets less.
You also calculated with 750 gold from the leaver, but it's actually only the half of it. You also assumend, that each player would earn about 300 gold more due to the absence of one player, which I also don't believe actually happens.

I'm not against improving the map in any way, I just wanted to point out, that the difference is not as big as you suggest it to be.

bot365 · 2011-03-10, 01:47:18

Feels too much for me difference to me. Yes i went by math, i said at begining that i probably mistake but is there a way to do that calculation right way. Really i think it is consideroble amount of gold. Especaly in start of a game where we all try to kill a creep for 15-30 gold. Lead me to track i will do calculation. Maybe i am wrong but i must know Smile

I will try with that formulas, and correct results. Give me few days.

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