Multibow too imba?

[Frechheit]

At present they are 3 good tactics to play with multibow.

1)demo+bow
2)scout+bow+hull
3)lightank+bow+basic magic

In my Opinion the bow is too overpowered based on my experience of playing battletanks privates with only pros. When u r with other guys in the mid for example 3vs3 and u r the only one with bow u creep like the 2 other mates together.
I think to raise the Costs for the bow would be good,because a lot Players play it and i mean the map is called Battle tanks not Creep Tanks.
So more Players would play basics or other stuff.

So i want to hear your Opinion

[DerSatan]

i also think that the bow is too strong, i dont like scout+hull+bow, because the scout got 2 creeping skills already, but with any other tank, the bow is just better than another starting weapon.

i think the problem is that the weapon formula does not think of the stage where weapons are available.

both creep-only and 1300-range weapons are good early, but become very weak later in the game. thats why the multibow is very strong, but frost magic is nearly never bought, because its not worth it.

similar with 1300-range weapons. bombardement rockets and energy torpedo are good early game, but become pretty weak later. and the acid cannon... well... i think its the worst item in BT. the damage just cant compare with damage other weapons do, and with speed/porters the range advantage bceomes small.


i suggest to include the overall cost to both these types of weapons, making the multibow weaker, frost magic and acid cannon stronger.

[Prog]

I do agree that the early game right now is just about getting as many creeps as possible, becouse of the anti-creep weapons strength (Multi Bow, scout Creep Cannon). The advantage of this weapon exceeds the disadvantage of beeing weaker against tanks in the early game - even if you die more often than your opponent you'll mostly have more gold and can get another tank earlier (and if you are scout, you won't die anyway - scout with hull & multi bow creeps godlike).

i think the problem is that the weapon formula does not think of the stage where weapons are available.

That's true as well. Formulas of creep and long-range weapons should be adepted to the game stage. Early creep weapons (and the scouts creep cannon) a bit weaker and late game creep and long range weapons stronger.

[Tribulation]

I agree, but it definitely needs to be weaker in terms of dps, not just more expensive. Going for a creeps-only weapon should remain a legitimate starting strategy, so players should be able to buy a Demolisher and a Multi Bow right away.

[Exodus]

Hm, maybe reduce the only creep bonus from 100% to 75 or 66%?

[DerSatan]

for multibow and scouts creep cannon, it seems like a reasonable amount. but if you decrease the damage of soulstone and frost magic, you can as well remove them. they rather need a buff.

[Prog]

75% seems quite good, but of course we'll see after quite some games if its a good amount of bonus dmg.

[DOGG1]

here's what i think about the multibow http://btanks.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=...844#p14844

the reduce to 75% sounds kind of ok. and i agree with the soulstone being useless. especially the frost magic too. the creeps don't play a big enough role towards the end because you rely on fast pushing not long-term farming and it's not going to be profitable to buy that weapon.

[RedNova]

I disagree. Sometimes getting rid of creeps soon is a tremendous advantage. Against an opponent who use creeps as a weapon (troop command, guard, ghost and generally speaking anyone in the middle lane), then killing them faster is really useful. In those situation the fact that you gain money is secondary (although nice).

Also, when you defend your base, getting creep-only weapons can save you from being flooded.

Lastly, if you get player-only weapons (like death magic), balancing it with a creep-only weapon, and a good one like soulstone, can be a good weapon combo.

[Giftfinger]

Lastly, if you get player-only weapons (like death magic), balancing it with a creep-only weapon, and a good one like soulstone, can be a good weapon combo.

Well i disagree, that sounds like a combo of long ranged weapons and short range weapons. It is normaly not really usefull, because you are mostly (in your combo allways) fighting only with half of your firepower. Even if I buy only players weapons i will buy as addicional weapon, weapons who attacks creeps and players, because normaly if you fight a tank alone, its more usefull because both weapons fight. And if you fight an enemy tank and creeps, you have no problem if your weapon shoots at the enemy too from time to time, because if he dies earlier the opponent who makes more damage (mostly the tank and not the creep) dies faster, despite the fact that you kill creeps too.

[RedNova]

You think a tank outfitted like that should go in a bunch of creeps and hope to make a difference? That's not the point of the build, far from it.
With that kind of build you have to position yourself on the edge of your player-only weapons and target a single opponent if possible, while being away from creep fire. Usually, only fliers can pull this off.

The creep-only weapons are focused to kill players, and thus cannot target creeps. So when you don't have a player to hound, you kill creeps to farm a bit. Since player-only weapons cannot kills creeps, you get yourself another weapon to do that, and do it well, and nothing does the job like a creep-only weapon. That's when it useful, not when you have to reach a tank inside a bunch or creeps. Besides, if half your firepower is creep weapons, then there is something very wrong indeed. 2 death magic and a multi-bow is fine, later on when you get 3 or more death magic then a soulstone MAY be useful if you plan to farm a lot of creeps, or the creep got boosted a lot (or if there is lot's of them).

Of course, if the only course of action is AI-like and wade straight into creeps to reach a enemy player, then the combo I described is pretty weak. As is sieging, since none of the weapons can target buildings. But even that is usually not a problem because I have reliable teammates to counter my sieging handicap.

Different situations, different strategies, different build.