Thread Rating:
  • 0 Vote(s) - 0 Average
  • 1
  • 2
  • 3
  • 4
  • 5
Unique Weapons & Items
#1
Unique Weapons Class..............................................................................................

Personally, a unique should be similar to uniques from Diablo 2 (an obvious inspiration) in that weapons have a different coloured name (e.g. silver instead of gold text) and a special name (e.g. Demonic Visage – unique fire magic).

■ The Idea

The concept of unique weapons is a category or class of weapon in the same way switchable or single target weapons are a special class of normal weapons. A unique weapon is unique among all current weapon; something that hasn’t been done yet. I propose a different coloured name and a good name as the definitive properties of unique weapon, both are extremely easy to do.

As stated, the defaults applied to uniques could be text colour and naming of the weapon, but to be truly unique they must do something that weapons don’t normally do. Hence the name. Unique attributes are limitless, up to you to create individually for your weapon suggestion (if you are not exo). Unique weapons must all follow conventions which I will ultimately be decided by exo should he choose to introduce this weapon class. A weapon in the most general sense could include mines and orbital bombardment.

Possible definition of unique: A weapon that does not follow normal weapon conventions.

Normal weapon conventions are simply all the weapons that currently exist, switch weapons have 2 modes, 1300 range weapons cannot hit buildings, weapon formula, hero/creep/special target damage/price adjustment etc… Special weapons are those which aren’t ‘absolutely normal’ such as switching, long range, one target only, these are the only kind of uniqueness in terms of weapons. The other uniqueness is the weapon effects and icons.

■ Unique Weapon Conventions
● Different weapon text colour: (not white, yellow or gold)
● Special name: The Infernal Gate, Horus’s Swarm of Chaos, Plasma Waves (Advanced)
● Different method of acquisition: (combine? special shop? random chance? enemy base? list below)
● Above average price: This and the difficult method of acquiring a unique weapon will mean people wont always ‘rush’ or save for it, like they do for weapons like poison magic at the start.
● Extra requirements: Currently the requirements are gold and open inventory slot. Possible requirements are level and availability, more listed below.

● Unique properties: You/exo decides what this is for a particular weapon. In general, anything that can technically be done without excessive work or file size and without causing additional lag.


Creating a Unique Weapon..............................................................................................

These lists are only guides. You may choose to have a technically normal weapon with cool effects or simply a weapon that breaks the ‘conventions’ such as having more than 1300 range or 5 second cool down.

■ List of Unique Properties
• No switch time
• Multiple switch options – cycles through
• Instant hit
• More than 1300 range
• Very high CD: highest is 3.33
• Has a distinct theme
• Makes the tank faster: +MS
• Gives detection to the tank – large area detection, whole map detection, targeted detection
• Has an active ability – places mines, places traps, orbital bombardment
• Upgradeable weapon – many levels of upgrade, each upgrade adds very little, upgrade bonus increases exponentially
• Different CD’s: multiple projectile weapon
• Varying damage
• Varying range – could be done with multiple switch options
• Uses the same stats as a current weapon, but shoots multiples of it – multiple projectile, such as a (x4) Fire Magic. Rocket hail almost follows this exactly, being obviously created as a successor to the bombard cannon


■ List of Unique Visual Effects
• Tank: aura effect
• Tank: orb effect – as if tank was holding an orb
• Tank: changes tank colour / tinting
• Tank: makes the tank semi-transparent
• Projectile: different projectile effects for a single projectile
• Impact:
• Weapon: switch modes change the weapons colour or theme e.g. fire and ice weapon (same stats)


■ List of Themes
• Multiples of a same weapon combined i.e. triple plasma waves, double rocket hails (renamed of course)
• Based off existing weapon themes such as plasma, frost, ion, missiles/rockets, 'psycho' etc
• Ninja weapons (what I call,) – Supercell and Confusion Magic which have minimal visual impact, should have no sound or projectile


■ Methods of Acquisition
• Combined like items are, same weapon, with items, trader resources
• Normal weapon: bought from a shop
• Bought from enemy base
• Corner shop
• Special shop that has defence – strong creeps, aura that damages you, aura that slows your down, cannot teleport near it, cannot use skills near it
• Drops from tank upon death, several deaths, upon death without any kills from last death


■ Special Requirements
• Trader only weapon or weapon costing wood
• Stats: Level, game length, tank HP
[• Kills, deaths, K:D ratio, troops killed, buildings killed
[• CP’s taken, defended, number of CPs currently held
[• Tank value/bounty
• Invisible shop – could move around the map, could be a flying unit that sells
• Availability – weapon has cooldown on restock, or a global limit:-
[• One type of unique weapon per tank, per team, whole game
[• Max of one unique weapon per tank I max 5 per team and 10 per game
• Kill streak: number of kills without dying

Conclusion ..............................................................................................

This is a very broad idea that already exists in the ‘unique’ weapons of switchables and specific target weapons which I call special weapons. Its up to exo whether he wants to have a designation of weapons that go beyond what has already been done, something I believe is inevitable. A designation of special weapons including switch weapons could be done but is a waste of effort to retroactively change the weapons. This unique designation will mean future ‘unique’ weapons will be created in a good format (saving work in the case this idea is introduced after).

With different requirements for different uniques, it will change how people play if they plan to obtain one. They should be rewards for your extra efforts such as farming well or defending your team’s cp’s. Just feeding off enemy noobs which requires no skill (requires skill to do effectively) should not be rewarded. Or maybe it should. It will make things more interesting, depending on the situation. Defender weapons? Siege weapons? Survivor weapon?

Please PLEASE don’t comment on the first 3 lists, BUT “Methods of Acquisition and “Special Requirements” can be expanded on, they have uses not just in the ‘unqiues’. They can be used for new tanks, new items, special functions and other stuff exo might add.
๏̮๏
Reply
#2
We already have minimum level requirments for factroy, troop reinforcements many recipies, orbital control and other things.
How would this be any different?
Into Alien Crossfire? It has been almost 10 years. Time to update your datalinks.
Try out my Comprehensive Datalinks Update. Now v1.3!
http://forums.civfanatics.com/showthread.php?t=291246
Reply
#3
Well for starters, im mainly talking about weapons which dont have restrictions. That alone would be unique.

But im not finished, good point though. (level req = not unique for items)

thats just one 'req'
๏̮๏
Reply
#4
this is just my own opinion but from what i know unique weapons and items like you describe can't be implemented so easy with just the beta team to relly on. look at the bug forums. how many of these people are even beta tersters or have even played a beta map? many bugs are probably not ever reported but eliminated by exodus by himself. i think you underestimate both the amount of bugs and the difficulty of anticipating, identifying the cause of, and then the final removal of bugs. also, i don't think you're taking into account the balance issues. Even with normal weapons which all follow the same linear mathematical damage formula (i think) there are long discussions about imba-ness and underpowered-ness of weapons like swarms and torpedo launchers.

if you really want to get some cool new special items and weapons then you're going to have to provide a clear and concise argument for the one or ones you want the most with some clear views on how to implement and balance them. you will possibly face some ridicule or at the very least suspicious questions from the btanks community. (they will scoff at you at first most likely). so that means before you can even enter a serious discussion about it that you might first have to try to drum up some support with an opinion poll. this is very boring and retarded and no matter what you do exodus still might not like the idea for whatever reason and it'll most likely be a big waste of time. i dont' want to say that my way is the best or should be your way, but you might want to consider making a suggestion list too.

you have so many ideas, some of which are really good and i 100% agree with so i wish you luck in your collaboration attempts with exodus.

**sidenote: heaven forbid that after months of you not mentioning in your sig on the forums your first and main btanks clan and main hang out spot that i should be pegged as some sort of fucking fascist dictator or something! i only asked you about it out of sheer curiousity and i really don't give a fuck. i just was trying to make some polite conversation. Smile
Why's the rothchild family crest and the illuminati symbol on my 1 dollar bill? Why do rich and powerful American "christian" leaders have gay sex and worship a giant 40 foot stone owl at Beach Grove every year? Why doesn't anyone care?
Reply
#5
I love this Idea!
How about some Weapon with varying Damage?

I researched a lot of time to find a VERY GOOD Formula!
(You could also tell me requirements for a new formula you would like to use. I will help finding that formula.)

(Deaths+1) / (Kills+Deaths/2 + 1) + 0.5

This weapon is autobalancing itself, depending on the user!
Its like a "noob only weapon", but if you are pro then it still does 50% dmg.
If the noob stats are 2 kills and 8 death, then it does 178% dmg.
Ain't this very autobalancing?Smile
Maximum dmg at zero kills and infinite deaths would be 250%


Attached Files Thumbnail(s)
   
Reply
#6
@random_zh: while this idea might be interesting, it's impossible using the phoenix fire ability. It's possible to implement this using triggers, but it's just using too much ressources to justify the implementation imo.

@topic: well, I already had an idea for such a 'special' weapon. I thought about using the Demon Hunters Immolation skill as a base for a weapon, but a weapon which attacks everything in range proved to be too strong. But I might implement it as a weapon, which costs mana every second. The only thing I don't like about this concept is, that it also benefits camping at a CP, where your mana is being regenerated.
As you see, bugs are not always the main problem, it's balancing.
This post has been brought to you by Sand - it's everywhere, get used to it.
Reply
#7
Oh my formula wasn't meant for an area damage.
Its for a normal weapon, with varying dmg or varying range.
For varying range i would suggest (Deaths+1) / (Kills+Deaths/2 + 1) + 1 this would vary from 1-3
Indeed this with area dmg would be impossible to balance.

Oh, or you just vary the cooldown time with the formula.

Or vary cooldown and damage in opposite way, such that the damage per time would stay the same, but the better your stats, the faster it shootsSmile
Reply
#8
With the area weapon, I wasn't refering to your suggestion. Such dynamic weapon as you suggest them are not possible.
This post has been brought to you by Sand - it's everywhere, get used to it.
Reply
#9
random_zh....so the noobs that start w/ sploder, get owned like 10-40 and then switch get an UBER weap??? LOLZ
Reply
#10
@exo
Hmm well, not impossible. But okey it could be too much work. (Since its only possible to set the range/dmg for all weapons of that weapon-type, such varying things need lot custom jass code.)
I hope you know the map "Power Towers" from mapper "strilanc". That map is not protected and strilanc is really a pro jass coder, i learned a lot from the code in that map.
Reply
#11
Quick reply:

@Exo................................................

If you do end up creating 'special' weapons then perhaps making them unique so that more 'unique' weapons can be added in the future? I was thinking of just a different colour text for the weapon. It wouldnt make sense if this unique idea is finalised after you have created a special weapon, because then you'd have to backwards format it again to fit in like particular coloured text etc.. But you say you gave up on that weapon.

@qwerqzor.........................................

"if you really want to get some cool new special items and weapons then you're going to have to..."
Oh yea, a new weapon or item created as a 'unique' which is really just guidelines for making a weapon/item unique would go through the usual process of.. feedback. And every weapon would be a seperate issue on its own. Includes potential bugs in the worst case, size, possible causing of lag (more lag), balance issues....

I havent even created a unique weapon, why would i need to think about balance issues at this point? this unique idea isnt even finished! i wanted to write it down somewhere (forum) before i slept, and ive been busy. Anyway, unique weapons will be naturally more difficult to create and theres no rush.

**super side note: i found it amusing, because for some reason i thought clan was attached to nickname like your profile, but thats manually added.. haha

How create weapon from scratch?..............
I dont know how to make my own weapon in world editor, my question thread through here
๏̮๏
Reply
#12
What about a weapon that can have a mode with short/long range (changable)? Btanks doesn't have one of these.
Reply
#13
Yeah, but I thought, that such a weapon wouldn't be very popular, since it's quite common to build a certain range build. So do you want to do with a single weapon, that can change it's range? You may be more flexible for certain situations, but I think, that such a weapon wouldn't be very effective. Maybe this option is more viable now, since the time for changing the weapon mode is shorter.
This post has been brought to you by Sand - it's everywhere, get used to it.
Reply
#14
I would really like weapons that I can switch from short to 1000 range. It would be really usefullSmile
I am so good that I don't even need to type -rc because I never die !
Reply
#15
I wouldn't have suggested this if the weapon changing was still 3 seconds.

1.5 seconds is usually enough time to change your weapon and have it still be effective.

What about a weapon with a temporary upgrade? You spend money and it is significantly better for a little while (somewhat like spending money on a net launcher, only this is spending on having a higher DPS). That would take only a little bit of coding.
Reply
#16
Quickreply:

Changing ranges of a weapon is a very good idea, it just needs to have a good way to being introduced. I will add it to the list when i get around to finishing my topic post.

1.5secs weapon switch time is good as a standard, so people dont have to think about different times on different weapons > more confusion

However with a unique weapon, this does not have to be the case. One 'special property' i have already thought of was instant switch or autoswitch. It could render all switch weapons instant switching too (hard).
As for bobbob247's idea of multi-ranged unique property, it could be done through having more than 2 weapons, so that switching does not simply go back, but in a cycle. Example:

Initial range: 600
Click once: 750
Click twice: 850
Third etc..950
Fourth etc..
Last click: 1300

Special properties should not 'add' anything bad like extra long switching time but as a normal weapon i would suggest having a longer switch time to prevent switching abuse, so its not "too versatile". Another method is having more levels of weapon (more work) but this means each switch doesnt cause a great change of dps.

ps. i'll have proper wording and explanations so there is no confusion when talking about uniques...
๏̮๏
Reply
#17
What is the meaning of unique here? All weapons fit in a standart formula, all have unique projectiles/speed, all weapons have a unique name.
So what will make your new weapon unique?
Must be either of those :
Higher range than any weapon: eg: 1500
Lower range than any weapon: eg: 400
Higher price than any weapon: eg 50k (Frost lazer was a unique weapon until last 2 version)
Extraordinary ability: AoE, stun etc..
Imba stats: eg 1000 gold 3500dps 1300 range

What you described is cd of 0.01 is not applyable because your weapon wont attack 1/2 to 2/3 of time..
6 projectiles, well nothing special for me, make it 60 projectile, still will have same dps and will only slow down game.
Really cool effects? Each time that weapon attacks, a naked babe comes from the sky, makes a strip show and leaves? (Babe Gun)SmileSmile Already not applyable with phoenix fire sorry..Smile

Only things i can think of is, some auras (armor, regen, speed etc) Which is not so logical with a weapon to give aura.
Aggressive skills ( forked lightning, death ray etc) bound to weapon. Which needs balancing issues, and useless for effort if you ask me.
High level weapons can be called unique. including Photon Bombs and higher ones. (or brand new higher level weapons starting from 40k to 60k)

And items are already unique too.
What a unique is described in other games are imba items. Also Uniques do not have replicas or duplicates. If you get a unique, then none can have it after you. Uniques cannot be bought, only found (mostly on bosses or secret places).
Or else what you call is not a unique, but just an item...
Trolololo
Reply
#18
1.5 seconds is still way too fucking long. Big Grin
Why's the rothchild family crest and the illuminati symbol on my 1 dollar bill? Why do rich and powerful American "christian" leaders have gay sex and worship a giant 40 foot stone owl at Beach Grove every year? Why doesn't anyone care?
Reply
#19
Here are a lot of ideasSmile . Combining weapons with other stuff - hmm...
Bombarding Armor :mrgreen: (iron hull up +bombarding rockets upTongue ) - I dont know if such things would be good.

Or a lightning staffSmile a weapon who did only 85% of the damage formula. The rest 15% are converted in -> 5% of the damage that the weapon would have dealt while the staff got cooldown Big Grin - and then click and deal damage ^^.

So it would be like (example): the staff does 200 dps (with 100%) at XXX Range. It is doing only 170dps (85%),
because it is loading energy for the skillSmile [it does always 85% this is just an explanationWink ]

The ability cooldown is 20 seconds and after 20 seconds you can unleash 20seconds*30dps /3 = 200damage to 1 targetSmile [5% of the damage Formula over 20 seconds]
(You can stop massing such a weapon, because if you use 1 the others would be in cooldown, like the Instant-RepairWink )


Well I cant say much to the balance. Pros could use such weapons in teams, thats true, but the question is, how much range do you give the spell and how much would it be used by noobs or medium players. If it is unbalanced you can just decrease the % of the loading. You can see fast if everyone buys it or not and react if it is too strong or too weak.
I think balancing was also an important point when Battletanks just startet. The Weapon damage to range formula maybe wasn´t the best too - at the very beginning. Or what is with orbital control - it also changes over time, sometimes we just should get some reasonable ideas a try IMO.
(using much ressources for big hard code Triggers is a reason for not implementing some thingsWink )

Remember the last changes of earth robot or frost Tank. At least for earth robot I can say it was good to rebalance itSmile. I would vote to give some ideas a try which can be easy done without triggering. For example a 1000Range to 700 Range switching weapon or so.
Random Player
- noob, nobody, medium, pro - we will see what happens ^^
Reply
#20
I completely rewrote my main post, i have an archive of the old one though. Apparently, my main post was not clear enough and people were confused so a rewrite was necessary.

It no longer references unique items because i am not concerned with them, but unique items could be introduced with special coloured names etc BUT the problem with whole new items is the inherent balancing and bugs. Unique weapons dont necessarily have to have complex or numerous triggers, or even any additional triggers at all.

The [unique weapons] could simply be very expensive 30k+ weapons which have different coloured text. You dont have to call them uniques, just like switchable and specific-target weapons which dont have a 'class' of its own, but which i and many people call special weapons. The more 'conventions' chosen for a uniques, the more work exo needs on a unique weapon, but that should be expected of something that is not 'normal'.

PS. If you want to use ideas from the lists in your own weapon, well obviously create a new topic for it, dont discuss here. If you want to add to the list or change whats already there, post here.
๏̮๏
Reply


Possibly Related Threads…
Thread Author Replies Views Last Post
Lightbulb Making weapons more unique Flygplan 4 4,876 2014-03-29, 09:40:54
Last Post: BENNIE.FM
Information 2 new consumable speed items Flygplan 0 2,506 2013-12-13, 14:15:15
Last Post: Flygplan
  My proposed changes to BTanks items Flygplan 0 2,859 2013-11-06, 13:38:07
Last Post: Flygplan
  Weapons can hit wards Perfektionist 3 4,578 2013-05-13, 03:47:14
Last Post: gozo1985
  Add Weapon Upgrade requirements to the top 10 highest tier weapons Vitriol 11 12,870 2013-04-25, 18:47:42
Last Post: RaptorXI



Users browsing this thread: 4 Guest(s)