idea for new "reflex shield"

[Battlemaniac]

this item is designed for tier1 tanks, so it should be affordable at the start of a "normal" 3k game.

the idea behind is to provide some sort of protection for tier1 & tier2 tanks against tier3 and up

the concept is simple, it reflects a % of the damage back to the attacker

so the more firepower the attacker has the more the return.
in the case of mines it simply deflects the damage, so it hurts less.

this a shield but it can be used as a weapon at the same time

at level 1 = 20% reflected back to attacker
at level 2 = 320% reflected back to attacker
at level 3 = 40% reflected back to attacker
at level 4 = 50% reflected back to attacker
at level 5 = 60% reflected back to attacker
at level 6 = 70% reflected back to attacker
at level 7 = 80% reflected back to attacker
at level 8 = 90% reflected back to attacker
at level 9 = 100% reflected back to attacker
at level 10 = 120% reflect back to attacker

it will simply reflect all soft of attacks, including creeps, mines, hero only weapons, etc. except magic base attacks, nets, and that sort of things.

standard creeps and weapons attack are reflected back to the nearest target, based on the range of the attacker,
so if some one fires you at 1300 it reflects back randomly to 1300 range at anything
if you get fired by something at 600 range it reflects back to the same distance
you get the idea

in the case of hero only weapon the damage is reflected back to the attacker

in the case of mines it would work similarly to the standard weapons reflection

now the only restriction i'll put, limited to tank from tier 1 and 2 only, so if you upgrade to a tier 3 and above tank, the shield/weapon turns into a hull or a mana shield with the ability to refill your mana quickly, fast enough to make it useful, but slow enough to not make the one using it invincible... (reminds you of BattleShip anyone? that tiny ship that refilled the shield so fast that was technically immune unless you had 5 upgraded heavy damage weapon)
i think a mana shield is better,
as that will allow for later on to be combined into an upgraded gold hull+reflect shield+repair kit pack or something like that.

in the case of mana shield for tier3 tanks and up it will become as follow

at level 1 = 20 mana/shield point
at level 2 = 30 mana/shield point
at level 3 = 40 mana/shield point
at level 4 = 50 mana/shield point
at level 5 = 60 mana/shield point
at level 6 = 70 mana/shield point
at level 7 = 80 mana/shield point
at level 8 = 90 mana/shield point
at level 9 = 100 mana/shield point
at level 10 = 110 mana/shield point

so as long as you have mana it will work like a hull, and when it's depleted damages are taken from the regular HP points.


i know all this requires quite a bit of coding, but it'll be a fun shield/weapon with endless possibilities



upgrade prices are to be determined, as it has 10 levels of upgrade, so it should not be too cheap nor too expensive, because at level 9 and 10 it becomes a really effective weapon
perhaps something similar to the laser upgrade price, but less say 1500 so in the end you'll need 3000 + 15000 that's a 18000 shield/weapon
this way it prevents people from exploiting the shield/weapon, and mass all 6 slots with them... which will make you really reflective but useless otherwise if no one attacks you. LOL :lol:

it'll be interesting to see the explosion from a suicide bomber deflected nearby.

also the side effect of this weapon is that it reflects damages to both friendly and foes. :wink:

[Saiyuki]

there could really be an item with such a skill, but it would only be one level then. or at max 3 levels, like the explosives.
but do you really want some item, that automatically reduces your mana? i can't rlly think of a reason to pick it then.
all these items would need some kind of damage detection as 'thorn aura' only workd for direct attacks. ( by troops, towers,.. )
it's quite easy to implement, but could get a problem if the trigger fires too often. ( creating laggs )

[khEg]

120% dmg return also sounds a bit too much to me.
Imagine one with that shield + 5 gold hulls xD
he just can go into enemies and wait for their death.
that would be very imbalanced

[IlPalazzo]

Interesting idea, but the numbers would have to be tweaked with quite a bit to make it balanced.

120% dmg return also sounds a bit too much to me.
Imagine one with that shield + 5 gold hulls xD
he just can go into enemies and wait for their death.
that would be very imbalanced

Go tinker - build 5 towers and throw a shield and as many hulls as you can in each of them... Grab your friends to do the same and turtle up in your base :lol:.

[khEg]

that way you cant win ^^
except enemies leaving

[Althend]

I would like it as Active skill with cooldown and not passive one consuming mana.
The player would have to use it at the best moment, when enemies spam most damage on him. Staying at cp with mana regen would be overpowerful.

[Saiyuki]

if it shouldn't have any mana cost, then we would need some kind of disabling all spells including other items for the duration of the activated shield.
otherwise setting the skill to being channeled, thus the players needs to stay put while using it.

no mana cost but full effect will not happen. ^^

[Battlemaniac]

I would like it as Active skill with cooldown and not passive one consuming mana.

that is an excellent idea

[Battlemaniac]

there could really be an item with such a skill, but it would only be one level then. or at max 3 levels, like the explosives.

at Tier1 & Tier2 Tanks
level 1 = 20% reflected back to attacker (regular upgrade price)
level 2 = 60% reflected back to attacker (expensive upgrade)
level 3 = 120% reflected back to attacker (more expensive upgrade)

*reflected attack does not have effect on buildings (another good way to prevent abuse, like in the case of walking into the base with level 3 upgrade and 5 gold hulls) :lol:

after Tier3 and up Tanks
level 1 = 20 mana/shield point = 20% of HP
level 2 = 60 mana/shield point = 60% of HP
level 3 = 120 mana/shield point = 120% of HP

active skills + cool down as suggested by others.

it'll be a great defense/weapon for CP take over, and base invasion

[GooglyBoogly]

I would suggest adding a damage cap to be reflected, that way it sort of acts like a pseudo hull and a weapon.

Say, shield/reflect for 1000damage, shield regrows +50/sec

if you wanted multiple levels it would probably go:

Say, shield/reflect for 1500damage, shield regrows +75/sec

Say, shield/reflect for 2000damage, shield regrows +100/sec

[Saiyuki]

well, okey, let's pick up some real examples.
shield/reflect for 1000damage, shield regrows +50/sec >>> +12.500 Gold
shield/reflect for 1500damage, shield regrows +75/sec >>> +20.000 Gold
shield/reflect for 2000damage, shield regrows +100/sec >>> +35.000 Gold
the shield should at least cost more than the weapon that would deal the damage, so that the shield itself would not outrun the weapons on the long way.

[Battlemaniac]

well, okey, let's pick up some real examples.
shield/reflect for 1000damage, shield regrows +50/sec >>> +12.500 Gold
shield/reflect for 1500damage, shield regrows +75/sec >>> +20.000 Gold
shield/reflect for 2000damage, shield regrows +100/sec >>> +35.000 Gold
the shield should at least cost more than the weapon that would deal the damage, so that the shield itself would not outrun the weapons on the long way.

that is definitely the idea, it should not replace a weapon, its main goal is still a hull/shield that will mirror back damages or at least a big portion of damages received

[horselance]

well, okey, let's pick up some real examples.
shield/reflect for 1000damage, shield regrows +50/sec >>> +12.500 Gold
shield/reflect for 1500damage, shield regrows +75/sec >>> +20.000 Gold
shield/reflect for 2000damage, shield regrows +100/sec >>> +35.000 Gold
the shield should at least cost more than the weapon that would deal the damage, so that the shield itself would not outrun the weapons on the long way.

Do I get this right; it has 2k dps potantial at lvl3, absorb up to 2k damage and regrows 100 absorb cap per second? It is up to an 2000dps weapon a steel hull and auto-repair.. Might be ok with damage cap. Gotta reconsider 2k part though..

:? Otherway, 120% damage return without a damage cap, it is practically 120% firepower of enemy weapons, with other words; you have a weapon 120% cost of enemy total weapons.. if enemy has 60k gold cost of weapons, this item is worth 72k... If you are fighting 2x 60k cost enemies at once, you have a firepower of worth 144k...

But there are several problems with this. This will include ability damages too. Because damage source will not be differed.
There must be either a range limitation or it must directly damage the source of damage (not random unit in range) othervise it might lag the game.
There must be an indicator for shield points like cp-capture bar. This might slow the game down too.

:wink: Btw: http://btanks.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=...=reflector

[Saiyuki]

i didn't really calculated the costs there, that's why i added the "+" on the costs, meaning it would at least cost the sum listed in there. returning damage would only happen if the damage was done by weapons, exluding direct attacks and skill damage.

but the real problem would be how to implement the shield with a view for the player that indicates the current shield value, as mana can't be used and floating texts would kinda flood the player. also the value should be noticable by other players, as such adding the info as the current stack number of the item could be done, but would result in the mentioned laggs, as for each shield and moreover each hit all shields would need to be checked and then the damage calculated and returned. ( don't try to ask for a bar, like the trader got )

so, either we're simplifying the shield in itself ( like: when used, returns up to the next incoming 1000 damage to its dealer for X seconds ) or we completly throw off the idea. ^^

[horselance]

:?: Btw i forgot to ask; wasn't this idea for start tanks? 12k-35k cost is far from start tanks...

[GooglyBoogly]

Ideas evolve, but anyway - if we keep the damage cap it wouldn't be hard to scale it down to tier one level. (100,200,300,400 return cap or something)

[Battlemaniac]

one of the cap is already in place, which is for tier 1 and tier 2 tanks only

once you upgrade to a tier 3 tank it becomes a normal NON reflective shield

as for a way to visual the shield a though of the same way how it worked in BattleShips, a mana shield the translucent round bubble.
then your mana becomes the amount of reflex left (tier 1 and 2 tanks), or shield left (tier 3 and up), the more mana you upgrade the more shield points you get to use before it drops to Zero

that's why the 120% damage return is not really that far fetch, considering the reflex only works until it runs out of mana.

once it hits zero the shields deactivates, and you need to wait for the cool down of... 1 min? 2 min? before you can use it again.

meanwhile your shield is up, you can't use any skills that should take care of the problem of the mana, being used on both places or keeping 2 separate counters.
also for coding sakes, to keep it simple then just reflect only weapon damage to source, instead of using random numbers.
Skills are not reflected, but absorbed, remember it has an X anount of mana only, so once the mana runs out the reflex and shield will go away.


so, think about it the only time you would really want to use this shield / reflector, is when you are either defending or taking over a control point.

and that's part of the thing, this item becomes an Option, you choose to use it on different types of strategies, which has its PROS and CONS while using it, and to make it really useful you'll most likely have to spend more gold to max out the 10 mana upgrades



even if you say have 5 gold hull plus the reflect shield using a tier 2 tank, to take advantage of the reflex feature, then you can only sit and camp, but you wont be able to use your skills, yet you will be vulnerable to say the Sky Fortress skills (my favourite the System Overload) or the stunts from the rockets on tanks/copters, lighting from TTank, Thunder Hammer from GobTank, acid + gravity combo on the hunter, etc.

So, it's not like you become superman having that "reflex/shield" it just gives you more time to "HOPE" for the calvary to arrive (yes emphasis on the hope, as many times you get really crappy team members), but used and combined properly it could be a very interesting weapon.

it'll be really interesting to see how people will incorporate this new item into their strategies, because it's like a completely new wild card, there are so many ways that it can be used differently.

for the shield to really be useful due the low amount of mana, i'll say it will need to be a multiplier of the amount of HP.

[muhaha96]

but for example it absorbs 100dmg per mana and you stay at cp than you get with your mana reg very hard to kill

[Battlemaniac]

that's the idea, the shield is mainly to be used for defensives tactics, for you to hold until allies can move their ass back to the nearest CP and then teleport to the CP being sieged

i'm sure you've been in those position before, you alone there and 3 well armored and armed tanks raping you at the CP even after you buy tower after towers, and your allies are still day dreaming....

[Althend]

that's the idea, the shield is mainly to be used for defensives tactics, for you to hold until allies can move their ass back to the nearest CP and then teleport to the CP being sieged

i'm sure you've been in those position before, you alone there and 3 well armored and armed tanks raping you at the CP even after you buy tower after towers, and your allies are still day dreaming....

It is normal you should die. One player should be able to hold 3 well organised players?
Btanks has already enough camping...