what weapon do you start with the light tank?

[Vomitus]

Wow, heli + 3 basic magics is sick, i cant imagine more then half my games i would be succesfull with that, because players are too good to be kicked ass with that tactic nowadays. Do you play lane with that or mid, or doesnt matter? It is not that i question your abilities, dont get me wrong, its just that it makes me wonder about some things...

The main feature of this tactic that I never play on one lane. I always teleport to places where I am not expected, kill those who is returning to heal. And, well, you farm more and still have weapon that hurts heroes. It is chosen only by the situation when to by hull at all.

BTW, I do not play on official battle.net but on local PVPGN server(about 2000-3000 users online). And there is such situation.

[ancientsurvivor]

Um.......... nothing against your Basic Magic - but thats possible with every other weapon too (fragging off people who dont think you will apear).
Also I don't like to play longrange weapon... the chance to actaully kill anything is soooooooooooooooooooooo low that you must be kind of crazy to choose them (yeah im crazy ask my friends). Even if there are skilled players who are able to hget some kills with 3 or 4 bombarding rockets.
But I like the close combat more since the chance to kill a creep or a enemy hero is with a firerate of 0.1 - 0.2 even 0.5 is much higher then the chance to kill someone with a weapon that has 2 secs cd or so. Ever triied to play a shredder with 3 graded flamers? .. thats just kinda funny how t3h noob iopponents start flaming. About the low range ... have you heard about something calles speedpack and powerpack? And have you ever compared the dmgburst of a FireArrowPack to that one of a SwarmRocket? thats a 70 difference if upgraded and only a 150 distance (nothing).

grammatical mistakes are intended and contain a secret formula to turn water into beer....

[RedNova]

Multibow and basic magic for me.

[ancientsurvivor]

Do u grade the Basic or the bow first... or don't u grade them at all?

[RedNova]

I upgrade the multi-bow ASAP.

[qweqqweq]

The tornadoe's the best cuase its got almost as much damage as the other's but it has a way higher attack. So that what u hit will die more. That means you'll get more gold. Its shorter range also lets you control what you're attacking more when you're on the move.

The fireball is a better choice though if you are still pretty new and are still prone to dying a bit at the start. The fireball has a range close to the range of the light tanks regular gun which is longer than the tornadoes'. This makes it an excellent choice since it''s likely to hit with the tank's cannon and that's going to increase your kill percentage!

Now if you're a total noob then what youve definately got to get is the cheapes 13,00 range weapon at the start. I think it's called a bombarding rocket or something. The reason for this is that when you're a noob you don't know what's going to get you killed so you need to avoid dangerous close-range situations that your not too sure about. You can do alright with one of these guns and the light tank. Very important though, only one of these cheap 1300 range weapons is going to be good on any tank ever! They suck after the start cause their damage is too low to matter later.

Special note about the 2 basic magic start: Don't ever get two basic magic weapons because that is absolutely retarded, retarded, reatarded. The reasons why are that:

1. Two basic magics take up 2 item slots. You only got 6 item slots to fill up before u have to starts selling stuff. Selling stuff is very bad because you loose half the money you invested in them. So wasting two slots for a crappy little gun is very bad.

2. Basic magics cost too much. To get 2 basic magics and upgrade them it'll cost you too much. You'll be wasting too much money and that'll allow a good player to get a thunder tank, air ship, heavy tank, or whatever way faster than you. Then you will really have problems! You'll either have to concede the lane to them, die a lot, or else waste even more money on a lesser hull which will take up yet another item slot leaving only 3 left for good stuff!

Special note about multi bows: Multibows just plain suck man. I have never seen anyone do any good with a stupid, good for nothin', worthless multibow. There is one instance when getting a multibow is okay, but never, ever, ever, ever, ever get a multibow for a light tank!!!

[RedNova]

Haha! Want a counter point then? Why two basic magic is BETTER than most start weapons? Here goes!

- Two weapons means DIFFERENT targets. Thus you can get two creep kills in a single discharge instead of one. You are also much less susceptible to "misfire" on creeps instead of tanks when trying to kill someone. This is the main flaw of tornado summoner.

- Selling two basic magic is the SAME as selling ONE tornado summoner. Upgrading two basic magic is EXACTLY as cost effective as upgrading one tornado summoner. Just like every upgrade is.

- One of the best combo is actually multi-bow and basic magic (with LT). You can creep very effectively (which is of PARAMOUNT importance early on) and be able to damage towers and enemy tanks.

- People having 5-6 basic magics are also MORE likely to be upgrading to a better tank than others because of their upgraded kill and farming capacities. And when they do, they will have a much greater damage potential than someone with a med tank with only one weapon.

- Selling a basic magic is the lowest overhead cost in all the game. Therefore, if you sell a basic magic to get a costly weapon that you will keep for the rest of the game, the cost is only 500, which could have been well worth the loss if you creeped and killed with for more than, let's say, 30 or 40 minutes. You can get a lot of mileage with 5-6 basic magics.

On other things:

- You can actually "kill" people with multi-bow, by removing creeps around them, letting him take damage from creeps (because there are no creeps around to divert fire) and then killing them with skills (light rocket for last blow). I do this all the time. People with TWO multi-bows are very dangerous when they take middle because they creep like crazy and it is very difficult to prevent them from doing so. There are ways however.

- I never upgrade a weapon unless the return is 100% (like most non-weapons upgrade are), and you plan to sell it. Because you end up losing more money than if you did not upgrade it. Thus, I never upgrade basic magics, only costly weapons.

- Tornado summoner is actually 888 range, which is quite high. To better control shots you should aim for a weapon of 750 range and less. But that is dangerous early on.

Besides, you claim that more powerful hits is better then immediately state that rate of fire is better to make more hits. These are mutually exclusive properties on a weapon. So therefore I don't follow your argumentation here. Both types have their advantages to be sure, you just have to manipulate events to make sure you get the best of it.

Bombarding rocket are good on an helicopter (much less on other tanks), but with terrible farming abilities. Usually when someone get a bombarding rocket I get a Repair bot (with my first cashdown) and there is NOTHING he can do to kill me at that point unless he keep piling up 1300 range weapons. Which usually I counter later on. Because you kill more creeps, you usually have a cash advantage too. So safer it is, but less effective. Good for learning the ropes though, I won't argue against that, because I did the same.

[qweqqweq]

alright, it's on my friend. i challenge you to a light tanks duel! ONE GAME, 1VS1 HEAD TO HEAD, AND WE POST THE REPLAY RIGHT HERE!

If you got balls then let's play a game! Any time, anywhere unless you're too scared that your stategy is going to fail! Let's settle this debate as definatively as we can. I propose that we put our theories to the test on the battlefield! I've gone head to head against the best with my strats and they've never let me down. Somehow i doubt that you can say the same. If you face a good enough player I'll wager that your double magics aren't going to keep your from getting poned like the noob that you really are.

[DerSatan]

asking for a duel is okay, i'd like to see that too.


but flaming because he likes a strategy you dont like is inacceptable! please have a closer look at your language next time.

[RedNova]

Qweeq, I don't have to prove anything to you with that kind of language. If we ever crosses path then we'll see, but I don't fall for that kind of baiting. I am confident in my abilities, I have tried every single strategy I spoke of in this website, and often more than once and in a large spectrum of situations.

You don't have to take my word for it. Most of my opinions are personnal, based on personnal play experience, analysis of weapons properties, based on my knowledge of the warcraft game engine and a few probabilistic formulas I picked up during my university cursus.

I'm not always right, as well, and I don't pretend to know everything in the book either. I learned quite a few things argumenting like I just did on various topics on this forum. I share my experiences and I explain why. And if I find a weakness in a strategy, then I explain why as well, like I did in my post. Don't take it personnally.

[ycoseth]

Qweeq is a retard!

Yes, you only get 6 item slots, however in most games you never even use all those spots. Many pick-up games are over in 30-40 minutes due to team imbalance, so who cares if you fill up your spots early? I don't think 6 Basic Magics are necessary, but I've seen fido1, Abelzar, and many other players use up to 4 basic magics very well. Fragile tanks like Tinkers, Scouts, and opposing LTs can't hide as well from the constant barrage of shots.

Funny thing is, I actually prefer a playstyle close to that of Qweeq. I like single-shot 850-900 damage range weapons, but his facts are hilariously wrong. 888 (TS) is closer to the 900 range tank cannon than the 950 range Fireball Cannon. 12 < 50, if my memory serves.

[NoobStrike]

ZOMG!!! DO IT!!! Tornado LT 4tw...

[qweqqweq]

1. I apologize for flaming. i suppose i should have read the rules on that. SORRY, my bad.
2. I apologize again for getting my facts wrong. I didn't get the range right on the tornado. I thought it was lower. It's range being what it is though is still great, It means it's attack matches up better with the light tank's cannon than i thought. I believe it's just a little under the L.T.'s cannon range. I always get the cannon ability leveled up for my first ability to increase my kill chances. (After level 1 I let the swarm rockets take precedence though)
3. Even if you did see fido1 going multiple basic magics it doesn't make it a good strat. I've picked up 5 fireballs and a speed boost to pawn noobs in a lightning tank before too. It doesn't mean it would work vs another non-noob though. I'm telling you: i've played a lot of top league players and they don't try that crap on me. The last guy to beat me 1vs1 did it much later. I poned him a few times easily at first with a fireball and had many close chances. However, he'd gotten a tornado which i'd never gotten before and he was able to hold his own till later when he got the upper hand. The next game i played picked up a tornado, saw that it had a much higher attack damage per hit and less range than my fireball did and I never looked back since. What i was already doing well with a fireball i can now do even better with a tornado.
4. I should note that the possibility of having a teamate pick up a sold basic magic now does make it a more attractive choice. Since the addition of the junkyard now you're supposed to get some extra money back if some one else does buy it from the junkyard. Maybe with that in mind the basic magics could be usable. I'm pretty sure some teams could work out a great strat that invovles one guy buying basic magics now. In a pug game that's not going to be possible all the time though.
5. So even though my advice wasn't technically accurate, my spelling sucks, and so does my grammar I'm still confident it was great advice. If you're smart you'll use it!

[RedNova]

Indeed, selling/buying weapons between teammates is a good way to "share" gold and equipment. Done well in an organized team can make going for a lot of weaker weapons and then selling them to other later on (who will capitalize on a chassis or other strategy, a tinker for example). With a trader friend, he often buys non-weapon and non-hull equipment and then sells them to me to make sure I get more at a reduced price. The role of a trader is after all to make money for his teammates :-)

Early game, this kind of trade can be very effective. Still have to try it with the new junkyard though...

I prefered the old way of buy/sell because it allowed for "teleporting" of weapons around the map, thus saving the time to go back. Ho well, I suppose it is easier now for less experienced players, and the leaver item sold at rebate is a great addition. I'll take the bad apples with the good ones.

Qweq: Apologies accepted.

[qweqqweq]

k, let's hug now!

[qweqqweq]

you know what, i hadn't bought the double magics in about a year while, i don't know now, they don't seem so bad, fido1 made me buy them in a leage game and they aren't as expensive as i'd thought. i thought i'd remembered them costing more. they probly aren't a bad choice after all. i still think i'm right about the item slot thing though.

[italyrools]

Never take fido's advice

All he does now is scout tank + bombard, like most everyone these days.

This thread is useless because light tanks are useless with the introduction of scout

[fido1]

Never take fido's advice

All he does now is scout tank + bombard, like most everyone these days.

This thread is useless because light tanks are useless with the introduction of scout

Errrr....did i advice on anything at all? :o
I didnt said anything because i feel whatever start weapons depends on ur team tactics, strategies.
How good the weapons are depends on whether the person controlling the tank knows how to use them correctly

[lyf590]

personally basic magics > tornado if u manage to stay out of range (which is wt pros do there days)
also tornado has a slower firerate -> not so easy to kill a tank if he hides well behind creeps

[italyrools]

Tornado is great against scout tanks, if your lucky. A good scout tank user will always have creeps with him, but if your a light tank you can catch him out of position with your rocket and one time hit him and he's done