[8.43] Scout too strong?

[Althend]

Invincibility/invisibility for watchtower isn't a solution. People would use them as wall to trap people in their cp ... :p

[Shift1]

In my opinion its also important to difference public games from intern games. In general there arent as much kills/death as in publics and so there a scout is pretty hard because hes just creeping more and stays pretty long in the fight cause regen and block.
So i also think nerfing those towers would be fine.

[ancientsurvivor]

I've just opened a replay thread for 8.43 - and I must say the Scout is freaking imba against nukers, though vulnerable to AoE spells like PlasmaRain. I suggest you watch the replay and we can further advance in discussion based on replay. You could maybe up your replays too.

P.S.: for replay look in "Strategy" subforum

greetings FCL

[Frechheit]

Scout is too strong.

The Towers are a way too strong and the Ability to Block Spells is shit too.

[DerSatan]

Hm, I think the most imbalanced part of the Scout are the Watch Towers. Expect them (and only them for now) to be nerfed in the next version.

we all agree about the tower, so we should just wait for the next version.



about defensive systems:

maybe it is possible to replace the cooldown with a percentage chance to block a spell. as it is now, lvl 1 is a must-have, but further skilling doesnt seem that useful.

but with a percentage chance, lvl1 + 2 wont be that effective without making it imba on lvl4 + 5 :|

[Prog]

about defensive systems:

maybe it is possible to replace the cooldown with a percentage chance to block a spell. as it is now, lvl 1 is a must-have, but further skilling doesnt seem that useful.

but with a percentage chance, lvl1 + 2 wont be that effective without making it imba on lvl4 + 5 :|

I don't like percantage chances, becouse they involve a luck factor. (and i don't see why anything should be changed at the defensive system, it's not imba)

[horselance]

I dont agree that lvl1 block is enough.
I played a game vs AI (to see everything much clearly) He got a Demon tank and as you know it uses abilties too often. I got lvl3 block but i was still getting rocketed. Because cooldown is not enough vs enemy spell cooldown. So it needs to be lvl4 to block rockets all time. But lvl5 was useless then. And if you play vs more than 1 enemy it needs to be as fast cooldown as possible to ignore 2 casters.
Normally i take 2 skills at lvl10 but with scout i take 1 skill at lvl10 because block is my 3rd skill and i make it lvl3 at lvl9.

[DerSatan]

you wont get a rocket as soon as the rocket cooldown is ready vs human players. they also want to have an advantage for stunning/damaging you, which more than you maybe need to retreat sooner.

against one player, lvl 1 is enough if you play carefully. so with scout, i skill 3 skills on level 10, and again 3 on 13 if i play that long with him.

[Shift1]

better no percentual chance, then its all about luck and cause disappointment on gamers who placed skilled rockets.
whats about letting the block but deleting the includet regeneration?

[RedNova]

I think the main reason people say the scout is IMBA is because he wrecks a few choice strategies very often used in start games, mainly the weaken-then-use-stun-skill-to-kill strategy. Granted, it IS frustrating to be denied a kill because the 100 hp scout has fully resisted a 1500 dm rocket from a HT, but that's because the HT did NOT take into acount the scout abilities. Thus, the "IMBA!!!" calls of fury.

Myself, I've played quite a lot of games with scouts as enemies and I must say I have quite a lot of fun against them because I manage to kill them often, because I always keep defensive systems in mind. For example, the AoE stun of anti-grav to bust 3 defensive system at once: great stuff for every other teammates. Besides, 3 scouts in middle just means they were TOO focused to busting creeps and we on them. The game did not last long. It's a learning curve for everybody.

As for the cash-cow issue, this is normal: it is MADE to bash creeps and not enemy tanks. You can do so with every tank if you equip it well. The main difference here is that the scout is using skills to do it. If you are so afraid of a scout racking too much money, then prevent him from doing so! It's the same rule for any strat: if you let him get what he wants, then you are letting that player get the better of you eventually. In the end it's the same thing with trader: hunt him or be prepared for an uphill battle.

The tower skill needed a nerf, it was way to powerful because it acted as a damage sponge in offensive situations (3 towers to take CP anyone?). Still a viable tactic, but less effective now.

[Rakhu]

The downgrade of the scout in 8.44 was too much It's nothing more than cannon fodder now! Please give it back at least some means to harm an enemy!

[Tribulation]

I really don't think it's been nerfed too much, it is still strong. I am currently exploring how well it works with an upgraded Bow, that seems to be a strong farming strategy, maybe too strong. Together with the protection and farming from the towers, you're able to stay on the front line, and the passive skill supplies regeneration and further protection. I wonder if Scout isn't too strong, but I wouldn't want to judge from only a few games. Sure it's made to farm, but if it is too good at it, the player will soon have out-farmed enemies with e.g. LT and Fireball Cannon, being able to afford a hull plus another weapon when the enemy can afford only one item and has some gold to go for HT or something else.

[Gammagulp]

I think the scout is more balanced now, but I hope the defense system will be a bit changed. Maybe increase the cooldown of the spell block by 50%, but also increase the healing rate by 50%, so it is possible to use in 1on1 Games a direct spell 2 times, without the system to be rearmed. As exchange i think you can increase the HP regeneration, lets see what others think about it. ^^

[Frechheit]

At Present the Scout is too strong. When the Situation comes to 2vs2 in the Mid than the Person who plays the Scout creeps like Hell and cant be attacked from Light Tanks or Helicopter.

The Spell Blocking Skill is too imba. I cant see the Point of that a Demon Tank cant stun a Scout. Moreover at the Beginning People who plays light tanks or helicopter dont stand a chance against scouts.

So i would be glad if the Skill would be deleted and a heal skill or sth. like that would come for instead of that.
So that Light tanks or Helicopter can kill them.

[Althend]

Just give change the skill that way:

"Scout invincible against skills during 2-3 sec"
Increase the cooldown and mana cost (reduce with level of the skill)
Then people would have to use the skill at the right moment just when they see people will use their skill on them. (then player would nee to have the reflex to use the skill if they see a rocket run on them)

[DerSatan]

hmm, i think that suggestion isnt that cool in practice. the internet connection/delay to international hosts would become even more important with that.


maybe increase the cooldown?


100 sec
85 sec
70 sec
55 sec
40 sec

?

[riC]

hmm, i think that suggestion isnt that cool in practice. the internet connection/delay to international hosts would become even more important with that.

ever heard of "listchecker"?
http://bonta.kun.free.fr/listchecker/
http://www.blinkdagger.com/games/install-listchecker
Nearly no delay and if you once learned how to host with listchecker, you'll always want to host with it.
So i think Althend's suggestion is good.

[Prog]

At Present the Scout is too strong. When the Situation comes to 2vs2 in the Mid than the Person who plays the Scout creeps like Hell and cant be attacked from Light Tanks or Helicopter.

The Spell Blocking Skill is too imba. I cant see the Point of that a Demon Tank cant stun a Scout. Moreover at the Beginning People who plays light tanks or helicopter dont stand a chance against scouts.

So i would be glad if the Skill would be deleted and a heal skill or sth. like that would come for instead of that.
So that Light tanks or Helicopter can kill them.

I do agree with this. How about changing it into some kind of anti-magic-shield which absorbs up to xxx magical dmg? It would be good enough against a single low lvl rocket, but still get damage from late game tankskills.

I'd also like to see the creep cannon changed to a normal tank cannon, if the creep weapon formula doesn't change. Creep weapons are too strong in the early game and getting one for free is overpowered as well.

[RedNova]

Personally, I just use another skill. Ligth tanks and helicopters both have a AoE skill that the scout cannot block. At lvl2, you can kill a scout with that spell and a few (2) hits from a normal weapon. So far I had zero problems against scouts with that in mind.

[Frechheit]

Personally, I just use another skill. Ligth tanks and helicopters both have a AoE skill that the scout cannot block. At lvl2, you can kill a scout with that spell and a few (2) hits from a normal weapon. So far I had zero problems against scouts with that in mind.

Players who are not silly buy immediately a hull after creeping or before when u start with hull+bow and scout..so i want to see how u kill these players oO