2012-02-29, 00:37:11
(This post was last modified: 2012-02-29, 00:56:38 by griffin1987.)
After all these oppinions and discussion there's still one thing left for me regarding ghost (as it seems to me that I'm not the only one seeing double-mech as being imbalanced and antigrav double-stun just a ted bit imbalanced during some minutes of the game):
Even IF you buy troops yourself, you're gonna benefit the ghost tank with its soul collector ability. Also, talking about lighting tank vs ghost tank: Ghost tank creeps almost instantly do a huge load of damage, while lighting aura takes time to do the same damage. Granted, thunder tank is 500 gold less. But compare it to airship: With ghost tank you just press a button and have 5 creeps taking damage for you and doing damage, while with airship you have to press a button and click, and wait for the skill to take effect, and then the ghost tank creeps might still survive with the ulti of the ghost tank.
And argumenting that the ghost tank doesn't scale well over time just underlines my agument of it being imbalanced - also, that simply isn't true, because ghost tank creeps upgrade with troop upgrades, while for example airship ulti does not. Think about it: You might have troop upgrade level 20 and your ghost tank creeps will be level 20, while your airship ulti still has the same damage as it had when you last leveled it up.
To summarize it, we've now got these things about ghost tank:
- ghost tank creeps level up with troop upgrades
- they aren't necessarily killable anymore with a single airship ulti, while airship costs the same. Still, as some of you said, you can easily outmaneuver it with an air tank. That is, if you survive the attack. Porting out isn't always an option if the ghost tank ports to cp. (forget the talk about telebreakers for now, as then I might argue that you can get stuck in a telebreaker as well trying to port out, which will make your skills useless, while the creeps of the ghost tank still do something)
- ghost tank creeps can pass through everything as can the ghost tank, and they absorb damage, while not giving any money.
- ghost tank can be countered by a heavy, but 1. heavy costs 1k more (so far, so okay) 2. ghost tank creeps can solo a heavy which hasn't got enough speed to escape and/or firepower to kill them fast enough
So, if we don't want to nerve ghost tank creeps further, how about switching the creeps with the current ulti? That way ghost tank would get creeps way later, while still being an option to push with normal troops.
Good / Bad suggestion?
Medivac DOES have a damage skill. Splash damage btw, with a rather short cooldown. And no, you can't insta-kill a medivac with an upgraded gold hull and steel hull. Easy calculation: Player A takes a heavy tank selling his tier 1 tank. Cost him about 5k if you subtract the gold you get from selling your tank. For the same money, the medivac can buy a gold hull, which makes it impossible for you to insta-kill him anymore. And yeah, I really like the fact that medivac is more of a team tank, as it increases teamplay and makes the game more interesting. But if you look at it that way, you should compare it to other team tanks like the guard - and the guard is only able to heal itself when it is rooted, while the medivac does neither have much cast delay, nor does it loose mobility when casting its ulti.
And its ulti is only next to titan ulti, which cost 23.500 gold more.
How about instead of an weapon invul skill give it a skill like the earth tank has but like the current ulti have it being applied to teammates as well. So instead of invulnerability you get damage reduce?
About antigrav: The damage of its skill doesn't have anything to do with all that, as otherwise I could say that the rockets of the helicopter don't do much damage to a heavy. And it's about as much about ganking as every other stun skill - just that the antigrav has multistun as well as 2 stuns, whereas one is the most powerful through the whole game (doesn't dimension shift do percentual damage as well?).
I'm always trying to compare tanks fairly as (except for shredder) there's not a single tank in this game I don't play regularly. But still you have to compare tanks according to their cost, compare them to other tanks which cost more, and according how playable they are throughout the game (startgame, midgame, endgame). Thus, if you compare a Tank which costs 1.4k to one which costs 5.5k for example, you have to calculate in the additional equipment the lower tank can have in exchange for that.
Thanks for all your oppinions so far!
Best Regards
Even IF you buy troops yourself, you're gonna benefit the ghost tank with its soul collector ability. Also, talking about lighting tank vs ghost tank: Ghost tank creeps almost instantly do a huge load of damage, while lighting aura takes time to do the same damage. Granted, thunder tank is 500 gold less. But compare it to airship: With ghost tank you just press a button and have 5 creeps taking damage for you and doing damage, while with airship you have to press a button and click, and wait for the skill to take effect, and then the ghost tank creeps might still survive with the ulti of the ghost tank.
And argumenting that the ghost tank doesn't scale well over time just underlines my agument of it being imbalanced - also, that simply isn't true, because ghost tank creeps upgrade with troop upgrades, while for example airship ulti does not. Think about it: You might have troop upgrade level 20 and your ghost tank creeps will be level 20, while your airship ulti still has the same damage as it had when you last leveled it up.
To summarize it, we've now got these things about ghost tank:
- ghost tank creeps level up with troop upgrades
- they aren't necessarily killable anymore with a single airship ulti, while airship costs the same. Still, as some of you said, you can easily outmaneuver it with an air tank. That is, if you survive the attack. Porting out isn't always an option if the ghost tank ports to cp. (forget the talk about telebreakers for now, as then I might argue that you can get stuck in a telebreaker as well trying to port out, which will make your skills useless, while the creeps of the ghost tank still do something)
- ghost tank creeps can pass through everything as can the ghost tank, and they absorb damage, while not giving any money.
- ghost tank can be countered by a heavy, but 1. heavy costs 1k more (so far, so okay) 2. ghost tank creeps can solo a heavy which hasn't got enough speed to escape and/or firepower to kill them fast enough
So, if we don't want to nerve ghost tank creeps further, how about switching the creeps with the current ulti? That way ghost tank would get creeps way later, while still being an option to push with normal troops.
Good / Bad suggestion?
(2012-02-28, 16:50:39)Althend Wrote: - Medivac: I don't see where is the problem. The medivac has no damage skill, u cant make him weaker. Reaching level 10 and higher is a long process. (and people already have tiers2-3 tank) People can insta kill a tiers1 tank (even with 2-3hull) at this point of the game.
- Antigrav: I also think that this tank is balanced. Antigrav takes huge risk. He has barely no real big burst (plasma and stun damage are ok until 10-15 first min?) his ulti is about ganking.
The thing in common between antigrav/medivac is that they are more team-tank. Their skill are more useful in case of gang and team fight. Nerfing them would push the game in the wrong direction i think.
Medivac DOES have a damage skill. Splash damage btw, with a rather short cooldown. And no, you can't insta-kill a medivac with an upgraded gold hull and steel hull. Easy calculation: Player A takes a heavy tank selling his tier 1 tank. Cost him about 5k if you subtract the gold you get from selling your tank. For the same money, the medivac can buy a gold hull, which makes it impossible for you to insta-kill him anymore. And yeah, I really like the fact that medivac is more of a team tank, as it increases teamplay and makes the game more interesting. But if you look at it that way, you should compare it to other team tanks like the guard - and the guard is only able to heal itself when it is rooted, while the medivac does neither have much cast delay, nor does it loose mobility when casting its ulti.
And its ulti is only next to titan ulti, which cost 23.500 gold more.
How about instead of an weapon invul skill give it a skill like the earth tank has but like the current ulti have it being applied to teammates as well. So instead of invulnerability you get damage reduce?
About antigrav: The damage of its skill doesn't have anything to do with all that, as otherwise I could say that the rockets of the helicopter don't do much damage to a heavy. And it's about as much about ganking as every other stun skill - just that the antigrav has multistun as well as 2 stuns, whereas one is the most powerful through the whole game (doesn't dimension shift do percentual damage as well?).
I'm always trying to compare tanks fairly as (except for shredder) there's not a single tank in this game I don't play regularly. But still you have to compare tanks according to their cost, compare them to other tanks which cost more, and according how playable they are throughout the game (startgame, midgame, endgame). Thus, if you compare a Tank which costs 1.4k to one which costs 5.5k for example, you have to calculate in the additional equipment the lower tank can have in exchange for that.
Thanks for all your oppinions so far!
Best Regards
Getting used to the Sand everywhere. At least it brings us map updates.