Reduce Infernal Rain damage by 25% after lvl1

[Gammagulp]

The infernal Rain damage is quite strong and moving while using it is really effective. I suggest to reduce the damageincrease after the first ultimate level by 25%.

That means:
Lvl1:640dam/Meteor : =
Lvl2:760dam/Meteor (800) : -5 %dam
Lvl3:880dam/Meteor (960) : - 8,3%dam
Lvl4:1000dam/Meteor (1120) : - 10,7%dam
Lvl5:1120dam/Meteor (1280) : - 12,5%dam

Usally in a normal Game you reach lvl 3 or 4 Ultimate instantly. That means you would loose about 10% Ultimate Damage when you reach infernal. Its not the biggest difference, but it may help tanks like Skytank with hull to survive attacks at a CP just by skilldamage and a bit weaponfire.

[Prog]

Infernal is balanced imo. This view is supported by a lot of intern games in the last weeks where infernal/sky fort/frost/titan are played nearly equally often (last btnk vs bug clanwar for example there were even more sky fortresses than infernals) - no need to nerf inf.

[horselance]

It is good as it is. It is powerful and needs to be powerful i think because infernal has armor req and 18k cost. Let it owerwhelm a 8k flyer easily..
And I rarely see infernal in priv games. Dont see a reason for nerf...

[Althend]

I think more that comparing to his price, it needs a little buff by removing the delay of his stun ^_^

[sam_ach]

also dont think that it has to be nerfed... quite easy to interrupt his ulti

[BENNIE.FM]

yea easy to eg:interrupt frost bots hold sky fortess demon tank stun

[Gammagulp]

I think its not balanced. The sky tank for 8k deals with its energy bomb at lvl 5 2560 damage with 50Seconds cooldown and 80Manacosts with verly little splash?

The infernal deals 1280 to every single unit in a really big radius with a cooldown 40seconds, 96mana and allows moving. The problem is not the interuption its more the not interupt or the waiting for the ultimate to use the stun. You need to keep your stun just for that skill. Even when skytanks (8000)are equipped with several light fantastic ups for (10500) money each, Gold hull up (7500) and whatever; 3 of them get no chance when 2 Infernal (18000) with lvl 21 come along with just 2 ice cannons (6000) or what and some (maybe 6) Mana Batteries (2400). The area effect skills would just blast them away at their own cp.

I dont say remove it or whatever, I ask to reduce the lvl 3 Ultimate just by about
8% damage. That means 160 damage less if only 2 meteors where spawned before stun or so. Its just a waterdrop on a hot stone. A simple balance issue
[2meteors lvl3 deal 1920; i suggest 1760damage to every unit in range]

[eSVau]

Yes, Infernal is not balanced, but i would make it like in the past, that he can't move while ultimate.

[Dr.Popitz]

But it's so fun to chase an enemy while it's raining giant burning rocks from the sky. :lol:

[BENNIE.FM]

I think its not balanced. The sky tank for 8k deals with its energy bomb at lvl 5 2560 damage with 50Seconds cooldown and 80Manacosts with verly little splash?

The infernal deals 1280 to every single unit in a really big radius with a cooldown 40seconds, 96mana and allows moving. The problem is not the interuption its more the not interupt or the waiting for the ultimate to use the stun. You need to keep your stun just for that skill. Even when skytanks (8000)are equipped with several light fantastic ups for (10500) money each, Gold hull up (7500) and whatever; 3 of them get no chance when 2 Infernal (18000) with lvl 21 come along with just 2 ice cannons (6000) or what and some (maybe 6) Mana Batteries (2400). The area effect skills would just blast them away at their own cp.

I dont say remove it or whatever, I ask to reduce the lvl 3 Ultimate just by about
8% damage. That means 160 damage less if only 2 meteors where spawned before stun or so. Its just a waterdrop on a hot stone. A simple balance issue
[2meteors lvl3 deal 1920; i suggest 1760damage to every unit in range]

HMM ok i agree that it would destroy all the sky tanks but your forgetting there are tanks that can counter it demon stun or frost robot goblin tanks hammer sky fortess hold and plus 18k tank with armor req should be strong.

[Prog]

The infernal deals 1280 to every single unit in a really big radius with a cooldown 40seconds, 96mana and allows moving. The problem is not the interuption its more the not interupt or the waiting for the ultimate to use the stun. You need to keep your stun just for that skill. Even when skytanks (8000)are equipped with several light fantastic ups for (10500) money each, Gold hull up (7500) and whatever; 3 of them get no chance when 2 Infernal (18000) with lvl 21 come along with just 2 ice cannons (6000) or what and some (maybe 6) Mana Batteries (2400). The area effect skills would just blast them away at their own cp.

If you play a sky tank with such an equipment and lose to infernals it's not becouse it's imba, it's becouse your strategy is bad. That's like complaining about light tank with 2 light fantastic losing against a sky tank lvl 10 without any weapons. Overdid it of course for emphasizing, but you get the point, the question more important is: Why do you see the case A as bad play and B as imbalance, when both cases can be solved by changing the own gameplan?

Ad "waiting for the ultimate to use stun": Same goes for frost tank and sky fortress? You even need 2 players waiting with their stun against the fortress and it's cheaper; - must be way more imbalanced!

[Gammagulp]

Well, the Skyfortress was imbalaced
Remember when it completely disables a tank and nobody could fire back except there is a second tank in range who stuns. Thats why a lot of threads were postet in this forum.

Otherwise the infernal got a 2 seconds area effect stun before ultimate and can stop multiple enmies fom stunning you - the SF got no second stun.

To the bad strategy. I think what i mentioned is not so bad if you add a teleporter to the Skytanks inventory it could be good equipped. The thing with the inernal and the ice canons is just an example. When infernal got better in the past i saw guys selling a lot shit like hulls and some weapons just to rush for infernal - and they own with nearly nothing in the inventory.

Well Prog, you´re right in the following case. You loose 2 times to such gameplay and then ... start to save for infernal at the right time, that means you try to reach infernal money at 1:00h or 1:05, latest point 1:10h mark to stop being owned by infernals. But you just do that, because you know very well, that you loose if you buy a hull and a 10k weapon before you do saving. Its just the infernal [And I think there are at least 30 BT pro´s out there who know that upgrading armor and saving early enough for big tanks is the only way to defend against]

Other point, its not the SF why I am suggesting here. When the SF is imbalanced it would be a problem of the SF, but has nothing to do with the infernal ultimate

I repeat: I dont want the infernal get useless or so, just a "little" correction, maybe damage or not moving while ultimate - I dont care. It would be very strong too.

[Prog]

I'll chop your post to answer:

Well, the Skyfortress was imbalaced

I don't think so and defended my view in the various threads, which shouldn't be read as kind of dogmatism of course, but it should point out that a statement like "x is/was imbalanced" is very hard to maintain, as there is no way of empirically decide such questions. The only way is to argue by reasons, where the factor of truth is not the deciding one in general.

Otherwise the infernal got a 2 seconds area effect stun before ultimate and can stop multiple enmies fom stunning you - the SF got no second stun.

As far as i know you, you know quite well that every time an infernal hits more than 1 player with his stun there has been made a huge mistake, so that argument is rather bad.

To the bad strategy. I think what i mentioned is not so bad if you add a teleporter to the Skytanks inventory it could be good equipped. The thing with the inernal and the ice canons is just an example. When infernal got better in the past i saw guys selling a lot shit like hulls and some weapons just to rush for infernal - and they own with nearly nothing in the inventory.

It is bad, becouse there are 2 ways to get into this situation:

-Someone was saving or allready upgrading quite long ago. You can notice that and react by going straight sky fort/inf yourself, push cps with porters as a team, or get demons/frosts (mostly air ship/similar players can do that without suffering too much)

-Someone sold items. That player loses quite some gold, which makes it rather easy for you to change to a tank with stun without getting a bigger gold loss than the opponents.

btw: With a teleporter you can defend against infs+2ice as sky+gold hull+more weapons quite well i guess (if you move well). An inf has nearly no chance to stun you.

Well Prog, you´re right in the following case. You loose 2 times to such gameplay and then ... start to save for infernal at the right time, that means you try to reach infernal money at 1:00h or 1:05, latest point 1:10h mark to stop being owned by infernals. But you just do that, because you know very well, that you loose if you buy a hull and a 10k weapon before you do saving. Its just the infernal [And I think there are at least 30 BT pro´s out there who know that upgrading armor and saving early enough for big tanks is the only way to defend against]

Well at first: The "30 BT pros" argument is kinda weak. I really don't know at whom you're refering to, as I don't know 30 players worth the title "pro". It's a bit between mass and authority argumentation, not the way to go in my opinion, stay 'ad rem'.

Ad saving for inf: If the only way to go is saving for infernal, why do in all intern games i play people tend to play less infernals and more frost/sky fort/straight titan? (even the best bt players (in my opinion) do that, but that shouldn't be seen as any good argument) Playing worse on purpose even in clanwars (in the last Btnk vs BuG there were 4 infs total as far as i remember, rest were sky fort (4 at peak) and titans) seems a bad answer to me.

Regarding the saving problem in general: Imagine playing in the first ~15 minutes and you play 1v1 on side lane light tank vs light tank. Now one of both light tanks buys himself everytime he has enough money an item, the other one saves for heavy (for example). Now when he reaches heavy tank, he kills the light tank easily. How should he defend himself? "saving early enough for big tanks is the only way to defend against". Who's calling "imba" there? - I doubt you do. You know very well that you can't play starting tanks well after x minutes (even the heli->inf strats are at that time really hard to play), but why should you be able to play midgame tanks well in the late game then?

[Gammagulp]

You mean the SF as it got maybe 6seconds total stun with no enemy weaponfire was balanced? (I talk about the old SF long long ago when it was implemented)

Well I think even in the liga list there are at least 30 players who know that saving is important, thats what I want to say.

Well I didnt saw the replay of the game you said. But I see often games with maybe 5 infernals at least after maybe 1:20h - 1:30h.
I dont know, why the SF isnt played so much usally, but it sounds to me like it was an exception that so much players play other tanks.

The saving for bigger tanks is important and I dont say that it should be changed because the game has to end after some time

But I will try to observe more if the infernal with its rain is a "bit" too strong by playing more SF now
(This will tanke some time, but I will report my observings then )

[Althend]

Currently I see much less players playing inferno than before. My opinion about tiers 4 is inferno is the weakest comparing to his price. His stun is really easy to avoid, his ultima also (titan doesnt really care, and sky fort can easily dodge it with his speed skill).

When I play against Inferno i always keep my stun for his ultima. It is really easy to screw it. His ultima does something lik 5-6k damage on all players around if nobody interrupt it. Tiers 3 tanks easily survive

[ChronicStoned]

infernal is balanced the way it is.
i don't play infernal often, but thats cause i just don't like the tank itself. i prefer frost or sf

[Dr.McNinja]

Completely agree with infernal being balance, or even below par.

Without analysing infernal in great detail, it is quite fair in most games (that ive played), possibly because of the fact people dont get it as much. Why not? it isnt as effective despite it's "imbalance" compared to the cheaper fort or more expensive titan. People can get fort earlier which is great because waiting for an infernal is not worth it. Also, saving and waiting a bit for titan is a great idea because titan is very effective.

Infernal is just stuck in the middle and suffers.

Why dont people put up polls? Some forums only allows polls on a request basis and here we have free polls! Since there has been quite a lot of responses, a poll would be really helpful even if you didnt think of adding one when creating the topic. Anyway, balanced or imbalanced, it has nothing that scales easily into super late game.

(fort's stun is worth MORE as the game goes longer, because each second is worth so much more. titan's ult is the same; each second of free life is invaluable. infernal does some linear damage up to level 5 with a mild stunning ability)
i suppose thats how infernal is, a pure damage dealer

[Gammagulp]

Well I played some intern game yesterday. The enemies team got 2 demon tanks, do you want to know what happened ? That demon tank got long stun is well known, but the banish when i used bombs nearly killed myself and i was nearly useless with SF. My infernal mate was doing much better. The enemy got infernal and SF too. I dont see the Sky forts were a better choice than the 2 infernals fighting each other.

Yes, its true that one of the enemies saved for titan and was good with it, but i think in that ganging endgame the frost robot is good, but the SF maybe even worse than infernal.

[Althend]

Well I played some intern game yesterday. The enemies team got 2 demon tanks, do you want to know what happened ? That demon tank got long stun is well known, but the banish when i used bombs nearly killed myself and i was nearly useless with SF. My infernal mate was doing much better. The enemy got infernal and SF too. I dont see the Sky forts were a better choice than the 2 infernals fighting each other.

Yes, its true that one of the enemies saved for titan and was good with it, but i think in that ganging endgame the frost robot is good, but the SF maybe even worse than infernal.

I see selfkilling with skyfortress as a good stuff ^_^
It is much more better to kill yourself than giving bounty to enemies :o
(just before dying I active bomb to kill myself :p )

[Gammagulp]

Well i only selfkilled sometimes. But often i was killed by enemies. The doublekill thing when killing yourself and teammates + enemies is just a bug which dont count for me actually