Tinker discussion - Your opinion?

[Ger-Dyers-Eve]

I dont hate facing tinker, I hate having one in my team... 99.99% of them are moron. Make player with elo higher than 1600 being the only one able to play tinker...

Thats no opinion. At _this_ time, you can - due to the high noob-rate on league - easily reach 1600 Points. At this time, the top15 can play tinker and if more time goes by, this quote will raise.

[AGGInator]

it's extremely easy to cripple them with a single mortar team bought at CP's.

but it works against max 2 towers only..
if there are still more the mortars do shit to the towers -.-
in my opinion the mortars are too weak against it especially in early game. the cost of 400g hurt additionally hard @early

[eSVau]

I was bored and played tinker, but Prog maybe provide some better replays (since he is one of the best player i know). There are some tactics depending of your enemy (mines, troups, etc.), being tinker is one of them - so you need to know when to stop and change

In this replay you can compare a worse tinker and me (hopefully not such a bad one ;-))

http://league.btanks.net/game.php?gameid=2365

[xXBehinderungXx]

we never said, there are no okayisch tinkers, but the majority sucks ....

(btw watched your replay, one tipp: drop your hull to regen very fast on the outposts, you always went back to heal^^, and i would suggest you a tech mech to extremly improve your tower base)

[mooneye]

It is true that good players can play tinker well. They can manage gold and know when to switch other tanks. But for 95% players who used tinkers, they do not help the team but frustrated teammates.Usually the team with one or two tinkers was destined to lose at the very beginning if the other team has smart players to push side lanes.

I think we can have it in qualify games but remove it from league.

[RaptorXI]

Ok, here we are. I agree that many players take the tinker (maybe because it's the only free tank in the game) and then start to feed by playing unwary (no hull, don't dodge damage skills, don't start to save for a better tank). But Instead of banning him from league (and that would mean retire it out of the game as trader and exploder before) rework it:

1. Increase tinker's hp from 200 to 205.
2. Increase the unit limit for all players from 40 to 45.
(http://btanks.net/forum/viewtopic.php?f=...inker+buff)

[TKF]

Well the demolisher level 1 artillery shot does 240 damage and antigravs level 1 plasma shots do 250 damage. I don't see why increasing the tinkers hp should be useful.


Increasing the limit from 40 to 45, will not only impact tinkers, but also troop production from factories and for other players. Also the tinker will then be able to build 6 towers unless the food costs is raised to 8 again.

[Velocity2k]

I don't know why we should improve the tinker. Only because people can't play with it?

In my opinion the tinker isn't even a "tank" and it's for free. What do you expect from something with zero cost?

[TKF]

In my opinion the tinker isn't even a "tank" and it's for free. What do you expect from something with zero cost?

My vision of tinker balance:
Give tinker 200 gold cost maybe but don't make it available from random tank list? It's unbalanced tank which cost nothing it should cost 200 gold imo at least. And 200 hp and not more than that so it can be easily killed without hull. If the mappers think it's to little to give them 200hp with 200 gold cost maybe max 300hp then.

Otherwise I see no reason it should be improved.



______________

Tinker towers work well in mid with teamwork which helps keeping the tinker towers alive while holding a line of defense. A tactic which works very well against tinkers is heavy tanks with mortars, siege packs and mortar teams bought at CPs. If the enemy picks different tactics and let him live the first 20-30 mins of the gme they should expect the tinker to buy hunter or a better tank depending on how much weapons he have invested.

But buying a couple of cheap mortar teams at start and crushing the tinker towers at the very beginning works best which usually forcing him to buy a cheap tank. All who plays tinker really hates that and will cripple that player greatly since it's very annoying for a tinker to never have a tower standing.

[RaptorXI]

I don't know why we should improve the tinker. Only because people can't play with it?

Why are you improving at all? And don't other tanks have a huge advantage by the random function?

To explain my suggestion:
1.: Tinker would survive a Level-1-Artillery-shot with the correct placement.
2.: Tinker could build 5 towers and still hold a Tech-Mech [5*8 + 3= 43 (food)].

[TKF]

I don't know why we should improve the tinker. Only because people can't play with it?

To explain my suggestion:
1.: Tinker would survive a Level-1-Artillery-shot with the correct placement.
2.: Tinker could build 5 towers and still hold a Tech-Mech [5*8 + 3= 43 (food)].

1: If you put the tinker on a flag, he will survive an artillery shot and barely survive.
2: As far as I know, the tinker towers costs 7 food unless this has been changed

[ssl]

2.: Tinker could build 5 towers and still hold a Tech-Mech [5*8 + 3= 43 (food)].

99% of Tinker players are noob, we've proven that. But also, 99% of these noobs don't even know what a techmech is. This leads to the only valid conclusion: Only 1.01% of tinker-players would even notice the change. (If I did the math right)

[RaptorXI]

Then 99% don't read the changelog at all, too.
I am offering a solution, if you don't want it, the problem will still remain (and obviously there is one).

[Velocity2k]

I am offering a solution, if you don't want it, the problem will still remain (and obviously there is one).

The tinker isn't a problem itself. The players who think they know how to play it are the problem...

[RaptorXI]

The tinker isn't a problem itself. The players who think they know how to play it are the problem...

Obviously not, because Tinker is banned on so many bots (on my clan's pro bot, too)...

[AGGInator]

hint:
we shoul offer major version changes @ the load screen like it's done for other custom maps.
every new version the whole community is asking which changes were made. it's annoying to tell it every single game.

[091846]

since it is free
it should give his a debuff of - 50 or 100 hp and a special buff that if he wear hull his max hp - 20 % and weapons that range is more than 1k drop by 20 % range
buff repair by 50 % and ult + 10 %
tower + 20 % hp and - 8 food
that it
really annoying you ppl want tinker
ppl dont know how to play and said it is good
yea with this buff , it will be more fair

[ssl]

@Aggi: There is a changelog on the homepage, everyone can see what has changed.

[Saiyuki]

hint:
we shoul offer major version changes @ the load screen like it's done for other custom maps.
every new version the whole community is asking which changes were made. it's annoying to tell it every single game.

we could also disable the automatic download of new versions by the bot, forcing players to check out the homepage. ^^

[RaptorXI]

Still disabling the tinker wouldn't be a solution, neither is his current condition.