Rebalance Bounty (Kills to Deaths ratio)

[GooglyBoogly]

From the game mechanics thread:

Bounty
The bounty of your tank changes throughout the whole game. The reason is the following calculation:

Code: Select all
(125 + Tank worth / 65) * SquareRoot((Kills+80)/(Deaths+80))
Tank worth considers your tank, items carried by you and every unit you own. Trade items increase this value five times the reward you'd get, when selling them at the trade master.
So bought upgrades, built towers and factories or used Reinforcements and Mortar Team etc won't influence your bounty.

In short:
The more your tank is worth (including factories and carried trade items) the greater your bounty. The more kills you get, the bigger your bounty. The more deaths you have the smaller your bounty.

Suggestion:
One obvious fator that seems to be missing is a level multiplier - higher level tanks should be worth more, since they gain additional abilities and hp. Even if they carry the same value in items.
I would suggest adding a level factor so that a lvl 1 tank is worth 70% of the standard, and that a lvl 25 tank is worth 40% more (so over +24 levels the base bounty doubles)
The base 125 may need to be adjusted a bit to keep everything even.

Suggestion:
Consumables beyond the first should not count towards tank value (excluding trade goods)
Consumables are already pretty expensive - having an increased bounty because you decided to buy 5 teleport breakers, or 3 sets of net seems a bit harsh.
It may be too difficuilt to keep track of the number of consumables (especially since nets cmoe in packs of 3), so just making all consumables not count towards tank costs may be the way to go.


While this constant formula across all tanks a is reasonable for most cases, one situations where it should be different:

1. An exploder/Suicider: In order for an exploder to function it MUST die, this causes the exploder to often have many more deaths than a normal tank (excluding a lucky run of reconstructions)- the high number of deaths means that the bounty for an exploder is considerably less than what would be considered for an equivalent tank.

Suggestion:
Change the formula for any tank that is carrying explosives so that the penalty for deaths is doubled - so the new formula would use [0.5* deaths+80], this means that an exploder who gets 1 kill/death is actually increasing the bounty - instead needing to get worse than 1 kills/ 2 deaths (on average) in order to have their bounty decrease.

[Dr.McNinja]

YES thats great, it also helps solve the trader problem, i tested, i can get to level 25 in 19 mins, but ive only tried once. If i turn the noob off, i could probwablt get to level 25 in 2mins. Therefore this suggestion means my level 40 ass will be worth killing.

100% agree with level based bounty. Surprised it wasnt already in place.

[DerSatan]

I disagree.

Tanks are often quite close to each other in levels, so a higher level is already just a small edge. However, you gained this very small advantage (which is only crucial at key levels, like a level 9 tank vs. a level 10), by playing more effective than the others.

Experience most often comes with gold, because you get experience from killing, as you get gold. And that in turn means, that you will buy stuff for that gold, so this factor is already in the bounty formula, so i would rather remove the tank value from the bounty formula than adding the experience. A tank should not be punished in any way just for playing better than others.

The only time when experience can greatly differ (saying you got no afk/extreme noobs) is buying updates, but updates are weak anyway.

[qweqqweq]

i like to do really fast tiny circles with my tank sometimes to throw off my opponents and make them think i'm a retard. can i get -1 gold to my bounty for every circle i do?

[Gammagulp]

I am against it. When tinker start buying 3x EXP they are lvl 6.5 (I think). You would earn more gold because he has got a higher level, but the tinker didnt own any items. It would be hard enough for him :mrgreen:

[ChronicStoned]

i like to do really fast tiny circles with my tank sometimes to throw off my opponents and make them think i'm a retard. can i get -1 gold to my bounty for every circle i do?

LOL LOL LOL LOL LOL

[Dr.McNinja]

If this level based bounty is added, then buying levels as tinker with no hull is no longer viable (or less viable).

@DerStan
"A tank should not be punished in any way just for playing better than others."

An end level boss should drop as much loot as a normal creep. Baal should drop 26 gold and maybe a cap or boots. Fill a box with gold and its just a box right?

COMMMUUUUUU

NNNNNIIIISSSSSTTTT

JK

NOT

NOT NOT

Anyway that would create even more problems like people not caring about taking down big tanks because they are harder to kill and provide as much nourishment as noobs ∴ phail.

@Gammagulp
Being level 6 alone probably wouldnt make bounty high or higher than anyone else. If its based off XP or XP/LV hybrid then bounty early game wont be changed very much. Those who get to the higher levels like 15+ or to level 25 are the ones who get a hefty bounty added.

[GooglyBoogly]

Tanks are often quite close to each other in levels, so a higher level is already just a small edge. However, you gained this very small advantage (which is only crucial at key levels, like a level 9 tank vs. a level 10), by playing more effective than the others.

and that small edge should mean that if your higher lvl tank is killed, your tank is worth a small amount more, remember a level or two is only ~4-8% bounty difference.

And that in turn means, that you will buy stuff for that gold

but not straight away. Often a player who is ahead will save up for a bit first, if they are already beating/outfarming their opponents, an extra low-tier gun/item won't mean much. While it is true that their bounty might be going up due to their higher K:D ratio this is not assured. Having an ally get the kills, or the force getting the last hit - or even being a tank that just farms really well can all mean that one tank can have a few levels on the other without getting any kills. There should be some reward for a level 7 tank defeating a level 10 tank even though they have the same value in items (not counting the very slightly larger xp bonus you get for the kill)

I am against it. When tinker start buying 3x EXP they are lvl 6.5 (I think).

how is that different to spending the gold on items and having your bounty boosted that way. It just seems to me like you want to be able to improve your tank for gold without having your bounty increase - a slight exploit.

Remember, it would only be doubled over the full 24 levels, so +5 levels would only result in a bounty increase over the base amount of ~20% or so.


And the exact numbers are up for discussion, there is no reason why the level dependancy couln't be changed so that the bounty only changes by 50%, or even 150% over 24 levels, the 100% modifier just seemed like a reasonable place to start.

[Althend]

I am against, level should not affect the bounty. I think that playing well has enough penality.

[GooglyBoogly]

what about the other ideas Athlend? Level dependancy was only one of the three.

[Dr.McNinja]

Exploder is a single tank, im sure the bounty system for exploder can be changed just for exploder and nothing else. (decreased if it is exploding, normal if he is using weapons)

This level/xp based bounty wouldnt really change the bounty drastically, you probably wont notice. Its main purpose imo is to attach a higher bounty to people who level extremely fast from things such as trading in hb, feeding off noobs etc. If such noobs manage to kill this excessively powerful and high level opponent, they deserve a higher reward instead of just a linear system.

- Feed off noobs a lot and your xp will invariably go up much higher than anyone else
- Trader (how fast can you get to level 25?)
- Assist in comebacks; good team work effort put into taking down their strongest (highest level) player will give some more reward

Thats how i see it anyway.

[Althend]

what about the other ideas Athlend? Level dependancy was only one of the three.

I agree concerning the consumable item but about the exploder, I think that increasing the bounty would make it unworthy to use. Exploder can't creep, isn't it a enough penality? Unless in hb, the gain between bounty earned and death is quit low :o

[ChronicStoned]

exploder can creep. by building a tower on a ruin and putting a weapon/troopcommand in it

[Althend]

exploder can creep. by building a tower on a ruin and putting a weapon/troopcommand in it

And then increase his bounty.
I am talking without considering facs and towers :o

[Gammagulp]

Well Googly, if I should give more Bounty for my tinker buying XP, why not giving more bounty for the tinkers who build a 2000Gold laser tower in mid at start. The laser tower creeps and even kills, but the tinker didnt give more bounty without putting items in it. The same to factories - they dont rise up the bounty.

I extremely rare use the bonus Xp for 900 Gold. And now you want to punish the players that do it. If I invest my gold in levels i dont get much more HP or weapons just a bit better skills. In the end the leveldifference between bought levels and normal gameplay decrease. So it is usally lost money - buying XP should not be punished

[ChronicStoned]

in my opinion all buildings(factories, tcc's, r-towers, l-towers and barricades) should increase the bounty...

[GooglyBoogly]

Well, Gammagulp and ChronicStoned the buildings have their own bounty. Whenever a barricade, factory or lazer tower or factory is destroyed, the destroyer gets a decent wad of cash. (and some xp)
Factory spawns also give a small bounty too, so they give out a bounty twice over - once for being destroyed, and again for each creep wave they spawn.

If they were to increase the tank bounty for owning a buildings/tower, there would need to be a corresponding decrease (or maybe even removal) of bounty on the building itself.

[Dr.McNinja]

buying XP should not be punished

Thats what ive said, and even without being punsished, how often do you see someone go tinker buying xp at start? 800xp for 900g is hardly worth it.

If having constructions increases you bounty, having a good base defense while defending would give the winning team even more bounty for killing you. Thats just counter-intuitive.
Tower bounty is already quite nice, like tank bounty and having a laser tower at the start is pointless unless you kill creeps, you pay 2k for it.

Solution for this: items inside towers add to tower kill bounty.

[Dr.Popitz]

I really like that idea. But should the tinker modules increase the bounty too? I’d say no or only a very small increase.

[Gammagulp]

Well, if the tinker build stronger towers you get bigger bounty for killing them . i killed towers which gave me 50 or 60 gold. Thats pretty much if you got a heavy tank. You get more for the better towers, because he leveled it.
I would be against extra tower bounty because of modules. Did your tank give extra bounty because you level tank canon or rocket. Modules are just a skill of the tinker.