Poll: How to rebalance the Smoke Generator
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No change
3 37.50%
Add a short invulnerability at the start of using it
0 0%
Increase armor while used / damage reduction / evasion
1 12.50%
Disable the Radar when the tank has less than 50% HP
0 0%
Make the Radar be usable on an area
0 0%
Make the Radar be activated for a short time, but still around the tank
3 37.50%
The Radar has to target one tank which then cant be invisible for some time (25sec?)
1 12.50%
Any other change
0 0%
Total 8 vote(s) 100%
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Reducing the Radar's range?
i would like it if the radar had less range (or could be upgraded with more range), because now, if you have a smoke generator or mines, an enemy owning a radar will make your tactic impossible at once
its just a suggestion^^
Naaah I find the radar to have short enough range. Tinker radar modules is free which you can put in towers, so I think its fair that it should have 1250-1500 range. Not less. Also radar is a counter to smoke gen, but if only 1 enemy buys radar, the others still cannot see you, and you can always use smoke gen on the others which doesn't have radar. If for example 3 buys radar, they already spent 3750 gold together, while you spent 3000 gold on smoke gen.

Also radar allows you to see and avoid the mines. Well I can agree thats imba. But without defuse kit, you cannot destroy the mines for making area safe for teammates. I sometimes trying to hide the mines behind trees. They usually sometimes triggers them, but rarely is lethal enough to work. Well his teammates is not able to see the mines when he's away.

I don't know how long range the current radar has.

Lets see what others would say about this matter.
well, i normally dont buy a smoke generator, because as soon as you get one and your enemies arent fools, they will buy a radar and you will have used your smoke generatore about once till then... wards, which can be used over and over again, timed detection or anything like that would be ok, but this way the whole tactic is destroyed and thats quite annoying.. imho its not even needed to have an item which counters the smoke generator, as the smoke generator will only make you invisible for 5 seconds, while the other player can probably run away.. that could be a bit too much, but well, this way it makes no sense to buy a smoke generator, and mines only work in the first minutes of the game, too, afaik
But there must be a effective way to counter smokegen, otherwise the brutal strike and return tactic will shred the base easily.

Bob666 Wrote:as the smoke generator will only make you invisible for 5 second
You can easily make lethal attacks during that time... Such as safe CP captures... I'm sure others can fill in with many stealth tactics....

I'm ok with reducing the radars range, perhaps to 1000. Not less. Also lv5 tower module has 1250. I find them very annoying, since enemy tinkers tends sometimes to put them at the towers... Also counters smoke gen in a cheap way in defence.

Perhaps add a poll??
no poll, i want arguments, and if possible a discussion... from different points of view

yes, invisibility is good, and you should be able to counter it, but not in such an easy way... its like "disables all hulls nearby"... or "disables all weapons"...theres no way you can play with your smoke generator when an enemy has a radar and is hunting you... in late-game, when you probably have a smoke generator, the game is very flexible, means tanks can change their places fast, so the one with the radar will be there, if you try to conquer a control point (as long as your team isnt much better, but with those special tactics wisely used you should even be able to turn a game imho)

btw, it starts getting annoying when you answer every post instantly, without much content... i know your opinion now, and am waiting for others
Will not make this a long post, but just wanted to add the fact that you are also still invisible for the enemy creeps. Now, i hear you say that aint much, but believe me, if you are up against someone with the radar while carrying your smoke screen, you still have an advantage. Also i agree with tkf on the fact that others whitout that radar wont see you BUT i also agree with you that there should be a little change about the radar item.

Now i will think about it and give a more argumented opinion later on.
Batto Wrote:Will not make this a long post, but just wanted to add the fact that you are also still invisible for the enemy creeps.
force and players have shared vision, so you are not invisible for the force.. you arent invisible for other players in that team either.. (even if that could be a way of balancing it, but its difficult i think, because shared vision is needed for fog of war mode, and might be a bit too much, too)

Batto Wrote:Now i will think about it and give a more argumented opinion later on.
on the one hand its a good idea because now a enemie buys a smoke gen and i will react on this with buying a radar.... and then.... cool....
both player have a occupied slot and have spend some money for this crap.....

on the other hand e.g. for me the shorter range of the radar is irrelevant because in 90 pct of the games i play with unranged weapons....

due to that fact my intention is it to change the radar so that it is an active item like the smoke generator with the same duration and the same cooldown.
its not a perfect solution but a good basic approach.

what do you think about this?
i think its nice! making the radar like a scanner. it may have a slightly longer duration than the smoke gen, but overall a good idea.

i suggested to add an evasion (for physical attacks, not player weapons!) to the smoke generator to make it more attractive. its quite universal, maybe even a counter to mass troop/spawning tactics and would improve the reputation of the smoke gen. its also a quite logical skill of a smoke generator that attacks could miss.
Yep, I like this idea! Remove the radar ability on the radar and add a scan ability with fair cooldown. Then radar wouldn't be so imba anylonger and you can now combat effectively against a radar user with smoke gen if he time the detection wrong Big Grin
well, possible...

i thought about disabling the radar if the tank has less than 50% hp.. could be a solution, too
bob: then the smoke-gen-user will activate the smoke gen when the enemie has less than 50 pct of hp... imo that doesnt make any sense.... than its the same like a "smoke-tank" versus a tank without radar....

satan: good idea with the "evader-ability" but i think consequence is, that everybody will buy a smokegen due to the fact, that creeps are very strong in lategame...
the smoke-gen will be a "obligation-buy".... as we german say... (ich weiß, du bist auch deutsch, aber für die anderen... ^^)
always depends on the balancing. if its 80% evasion, everyone will buy it. if its 2%, hmm.. dunno Tongue
Smoke Gen

Heavy tanks armor skill is super effective against absorbing damage from creeps. It works almost like evasion, but it's dmg reduction, which makes laser towers do almost none damage. But it is not exactly the same as evasion...

Well changing the smoke gen to normal evasion item will completely change the item. It will no longer become a smoke gen, but a damper field item sort of. A item which absorbs physical attacks. But we're not talking about making a shield type item are we, no? Smoke gen makes a lot of smoke, which makes you invisible for enemies. This is what I'm used to.

Your evasion discussion confuses me... :?

Back to radar

Disabling the radar when hp is below 50%, sounds a bit strange. I'm not sure about this idea. Actually radar user might brutally get killed when he is blind when low on hp.

I rather stick to the active usage of radar solution scan or simply reduce the AOE of radar.
i just suggested to ADD a small evasion against physical attacks to it, because bob wanted the item to be more attractive.
Then it's totally useless against player weapons...

right, you got it.

btw: atm its totally useless against player weapons AND physical attacks


/spam off
the current situation is, that smoke generators are instantly countered with radars, and its bad for both players, they wasted money... i want the smoke generator to be useful all the time, and thats why disabling the radar when the tank has less than 50% hp is a good idea... it provides some more tactical depth when to use the radar, makes you unable to conquer control points with a rush, the player with less than 50% can know that he could be attacked by the invisible player and stay covered...
yes, and it WILL be a improvement for the smoke generator, yes... and thats what it is intended to be...
i currently just hate the situation, that you cant buy the smoke generator any longer... and armor would change its functionality, not buff its old functionality
So i take it your thinking about using this change (the 50% health thing) and not thinking about the 'activation'-idea anymore?
its currently my favourite, yes... but im not sure about that, either..

EDIT: poll added; the vote isnt deciding what will be changed, exo and me do, but that vote might make me decide it

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