Discussion about BTT2012 details

[Althend]

@Exodus: thx!

@Oliver: 100 euros? U give too much :p

Elo means crap.... I just can give some recipe to clan players and they would all have above 1600 elo... There is no point to try to balance a tournament by this way.

Elo or names don't mean anything, especially since we canc reate a new account easily

(Even worse, whant about players having multiple account and being in different teams? Or even more evil, having 2 teams with same players but different nicknames to increase the chance?)

I don't like Titans fight but making a drawline may make people use camp/def strategy when they are screwed. People would aim a draw instead of victories. Naturally, in desesperate stiuation, people would :o

[Prog]

OK, 1.5 hour for a draw game in the 1st phase.



(2) In the group phase: 4 teams in a group. 1 game will happen between any 2 teams. So in total 6 games in a group. And each team plays 3 games in the 1st phase.

(4) In the group phase: after 6 games in a group, the 4 teams are ranked by points. If more than 1 teams have equal points, the they are ranked by overall team kills minus team deaths. And if still the same, the teams are ranked by overall team kills. And if still the same, an extra game will be arranged. At the end, the top 2 teams will go to the next phase, single elimination.

Ad2.
I suggest to play double matches - i mean 2 games 1 after another with 10min break. As we all know there are some games when bad random (like 4scouts in 1 team) can ruin game. Making it 2 games would lower to probability of random result of a match.

So just don't play random if you don't want to risk anything? Random is a good way to give slightly worse teams a chance by gambling a bit.

[FirePhoenix]

@oli
Lol true...I've been wrong
I wasn't rly awake yet, thought that all strong teams are in Group A and all normal teams Group B which would be a joke xD

I agree progg.
In the group phase there should be 2games between any 2teams. So each team should complete 6games instead of 3games. Also I know some people, who are playing better in the Dark Force and badly in the Light Force. So it would be fair to do like this.

And if more than 1team have equal points, there should be the direct comparison, as progg said. It's unfair if "A-team" wins the "B-team" but the B-team has a better K/D. So the A-team would more deserve it to go to the 2nd phase because they have won against B-team.

[progg]

OK, 1.5 hour for a draw game in the 1st phase.



(2) In the group phase: 4 teams in a group. 1 game will happen between any 2 teams. So in total 6 games in a group. And each team plays 3 games in the 1st phase.

(4) In the group phase: after 6 games in a group, the 4 teams are ranked by points. If more than 1 teams have equal points, the they are ranked by overall team kills minus team deaths. And if still the same, the teams are ranked by overall team kills. And if still the same, an extra game will be arranged. At the end, the top 2 teams will go to the next phase, single elimination.

Ad2.
I suggest to play double matches - i mean 2 games 1 after another with 10min break. As we all know there are some games when bad random (like 4scouts in 1 team) can ruin game. Making it 2 games would lower to probability of random result of a match.

So just don't play random if you don't want to risk anything? Random is a good way to give slightly worse teams a chance by gambling a bit.

90% of players plays random => there's some probabilty that game won't be good reflection of teams real strenght.

[olivercamel]

@progg, FirePhoenix,

(1) If the draw limit is 1.5 hour, 2 games will take 3 hours + 15 min break. 3+ hours are too long for players and also for the referees. Meanwhile, this will double the total games of the 1st phase, from 24 (if 4 groups) to 48, and will double the BTT overall time. And costs lots of referee resources.

Before if we use the 1 hour draw limit, it is still affordable. But as now the draw limit is 1.5 hour, 2 games in the 1st phase will be out of discussion.

Which team is dark/light force will be randomly assigned.

(2) OK, we use the win/lose relationship as the 2nd factor to rank the teams.


@althend

Yes, i also feel like fully random seeding the teams will be easier. ELO doesn't mean everything.

But i guess the full random seeding just not "sound" good enough for some people, they will complaint if we do so. So it is better just to use something to make our seeding looks more reasonable.

> I don't like Titans fight but making a drawline may make people use camp/def strategy when they are screwed.

1. 1.5 hour drawline for 4v4 game is really like no drawline (assuming the game is at intern game level).
2. I believe those teams will use the camp/def strategy with or without drawline.

---

90% of players plays random => there's some probabilty that game won't be good reflection of teams real strenght.

Please consider the "random tank" as a strategy to win, but not as a must do. So if you couldn't afford the side-effect of using random tank, then don't do it.

Yes, it is possible that if a team is very lucky that everyone get amazing random tank. And this doesn't reflect the teams' real skill. But this kind of luck is everywhere in any sports / games. You cannot eliminate it.

If you don't think you are lucky, then just do the normal way, not to use random tank.

maybe 90% players play random in the league games, but in the real team BT games, they will learn the lesson if they keep doing so. Actually there are even teams buying different tanks on purpose to make a good combination. And for me i hardly do random tank in a game that I really care.

After all, the random bonus is not that much. If a team is strong, they will win anyway.

[progg]

Is there something bad if btt2012 will take long time?
IMO it's good. League is dying. Community is dying. Less and less people play. Most of best players quit playing. Maybe i'm wrong but i think this is the last chance to make something nice in bt.

[olivercamel]

Is there something bad if btt2012 will take long time?
IMO it's good. League is dying. Community is dying. Less and less people play. Most of best players quit playing. Maybe i'm wrong but i think this is the last chance to make something nice in bt.

Long league is not bad. But it is too hard to do with limited resources of organizing.

Both the people organizing it and people who sign up for the BTT have their private life. For most people it is not possible to spend all weekends on this BTT. So it is better to finish it in a short time.

[progg]

i'm sure in praticular situations people can get along with playing game @tue or wed.
since i rise my kid alone i can't go party 2often, so i can help in organizing/judging.
besides i doubt if full 3:15 hours will be necessary to play most matches.

[olivercamel]

i'm sure in praticular situations people can get along with playing game @tue or wed.
since i rise my kid alone i can't go party 2often, so i can help in organizing/judging.
besides i doubt if full 3:15 hours will be necessary to play most matches.

A 4v4 game involves 8 people + 1-2 referees. We cannot assume they will be all free on week days. If we want to make a game on Tuesday, the organizer has to ask everyone and wait for confirm from them. This is a lot of work to do.

And because the BTT is an official BT tournament. The organizer is under pressure that a bad organized tournament will harm the reputation of the BT dev. team. So to have a successful BTT is the 1st goal. We have to take the options with the lowest risks => most games will happen and finish on time, and the overall tournament cannot be too long in case some of people will get bored.

> i doubt if full 3:15 hours will be necessary to play most matches
We have to always consider the worst case before arrange anything

> i can help in organizing/judging
Thanks for offering help. We will see want kind of help is needed when the BTT rules are mostly defined. Talk about it later.

[progg]

ok, i get your point about sucessfullness of the btt.

[progg]

i just had an idea.
What about opening not only BTT but also whole league for other servers (garena, eurobattle.net, others?)
Technically it's not problem - from my eurobattle.net times i remember we played privs together with ppl from north.
This could be influx of fresh blood that bt needs that much imo.

[El_Polacco]

It looks like blizzard doesnt care anymore about warcraft so I guess it would be great idea.
There's needed right solution to keep exisiting more bt community.

[olivercamel]

for BT league i don't know. you need to discuss with the league admin

for BTT2012 it is already decided to stay with Battle.net like last time. So if there will be the next btt we could discuss this topic again.