New items/weapons

[progg]

That's right. But beeing effective vs deflective armor isn't the only desirable feature of a weapon.

[Exodus]

Well, the fact, that weapons with a low cooldown are generally better than weapons with high cooldown was a reason why I designed the Deflective Armor. Because I reckoned that this would be the best way to tackle this problem. Just decreasing the cooldown of weapons with a high cooldown would just reduce variety and most likely make some weapons obsolete.

The fact that there is an item now, that counters (well, it's a soft counter) a certain kind of weapons is a good thing imo. Now you just can't go for your usual build without paying attention to what the enemy does.
Also, when you speak about how you fought the entire enemy team, which seemingly all focussed on low cooldown weapons, it is just the right thing to get the Deflective Armor. That is how you show them, that they made a mistake ;)

People also complained about how imba short range tactics were (Poison + Porter). One reason to solve this, would have been to either nerf short range or the Teleporter. But I thought that this would take some of the fun out of the game. So I added the Deflective Armor and changed the Poison, to give people a possibility to react to what the enemy does, without making a certain strategy useless. And despite what some people might think, the poison is still far from useless. Just because one enemy bought the Deflective Armor, this doesn't mean you can't kill anything anymore. If more enemies are going for Deflective because of your own build, this can also be considered a victory, since they spent money and an item slot just to have an advantage when fighting against you.

Keeping this in mind, when adding new weapons might prove useful. Adding weapons with longer cooldown might be more worthy than it has been before.

[Crag_Hack]

im with u deflect is ok and bring ppl to use its brain before buy weaps

People also complained about how imba short range tactics were (Poison + Porter). One reason to solve this, would have been to either nerf short range or the Teleporter. But I thought that this would take some of the fun out of the game. So I added the Deflective Armor and changed the Poison, to give people a possibility to react to what the enemy does, without making a certain strategy useless.

but why they isnt a good way to react early lr on lane, or better why it puts away (op mechs) maybe add a small tp with like 600 range for 1,2k (u loose 600g compared to normal tp) and a blueprint to up it to normal one for maybe 2,8k (u loose 1000 all together + blueprint for speed pack)
or give mechs more repair to other mechs so double mech vs one bombard or torpedo will work and make them therefor weaker to spells, so for example if u use lvl 3 q and lvl 3 w by demolisher mechs will die

[Wupti]

1.
Very nice work Teo.

2.
I agree by the fact that deflective is OP, especially the combinated one (rege, defle, mana), it simply reduce too much dmg and makes it almost impossible for people with closerange to kill people. reason why poison got fixed is because too many people whines too much because they cant find breaker shop or is too stingy to buy it
btanks is basically divided into 3 phases, when you look at weapons, not tanks.
Early game from start til min 30 - here is it generally middle ranged weapons (888-1050) + a few longrangers which dominates because people aren't mobile enough yet.
Middle game min 30 til around 1 hour and 10 min - generally short range weapons, because people now are mobile (speedpack etc.)
Late game 1h 10min til end - generally middle/longrange again (supercell, darkness)

The game is actually divided into 3 phases where different ranges are needed.
Im not saying i think deflective was a bad idea, the reason it's so overpowered at the moment is clear when you look at exodus post with the excel. there's only 3 weapons in price (5000-10000 gold, which would be called middlegame weapons)
Poison magic, flamer, laser. Now what's in common for them...? they all have low cooldown, which means there's no shortrange weapon to counter deflective with. This results in 2 solutions. The first one is simply to nerf deflective a little. The second and more preferable one is to create some more shortrange weapons with different cooldown.

3.
What I think btanks is missing is weapons between range 1050-1300. Why does there have to be a gap? It would make btanks far more interesting and open up for many new strategics. It would disadvantage the early longrangers at lane a little whom so many people complain about, and make lategame longrange weapons like teo suggest possible because it will be harder to keep that minor range adv then. furthermore it would eliminate the more and more common basic magic + electro if there were weapons with range 1100, 1150, 1200 or 1250.
All this is ofc up for discussion and feedback + ideas are welcome

[Teo_live]

I agree with Exodus on Deflect, people should use a brain to kill deflect users (deflect also gives reason for late game lr choices).

- break the Supercell monopol

I strongly agree with this point. The main reason I created the ideas was that I was quite tired of late game being boring Supercell wars

Supercell is the longest range late game weapon available, so as such just about everyone buys one. There needs to be more options

Do you think, you'd be able to find the ressources again, that are not wihin the normal editor? This would be quite a nice help.

Argh I deleted my test map for this I would have sent you it.

I myself just dont know enough about editing to remake this for you (I had a friend help me with it before because I suck with computers). Though you can find most of the animations can be found on the wc3 map "Hell Vs Heaven Final". The rest of the animations can be found on most standard wc3 maps out there even dota.
* Stardust cannon = Passive attack from the hero Iris Goddess of Rainbow, H vs H map
* Radiation shower = Passive attack any hero with Death Staff item, H vs H map
* Gatling Gun = Passive attack from the hero Tyrael Mighty God, H vs H map
* The rest = Can be found quite easily on the latest Dota

I can't remember how he added the icons, but the ideas we found from here:
http://www.wowwiki.com/WC3_Icons/Icon_List
* Other nice Gun icons including the Gatling Gun icon can be found on the Wc3 Map: Dawn of the dead
* The Stardust icon and the converter icons is too my knowledge a dota exclusive from Skywrath Mage and Templar Assassin. Their icons are quite nice.

Now on a side note, your graph seems to show a huge LACK of 700 ranged weapons. Some extra 777 weapons would be nice, especially for late game. As well as a long ranged alternative to ye-olde-boring-supercell!

(Note: Damn forums won't allow me to attach any maps, or word documents on how to get the animations in the map. Blah oh wells finding the maps should be easy enough in google hopefully, if not pm me on a way to send the maps. If you cannot figure out how to see the animations then I will send you instructions on how. Sorry I didn't save my test map for you to muck around in/steal animations from)

[ssl]

I agree by the fact that deflective is OP, especially the combinated one (rege, defle, mana), it simply reduce too much dmg and makes it almost impossible for people with closerange to kill people. reason why poison got fixed is because too many people whines too much because they cant find breaker shop or is too stingy to buy it
btanks is basically divided into 3 phases, when you look at weapons, not tanks.
Early game from start til min 30 - here is it generally middle ranged weapons (888-1050) + a few longrangers which dominates because people aren't mobile enough yet.
Middle game min 30 til around 1 hour and 10 min - generally short range weapons, because people now are mobile (speedpack etc.)
Late game 1h 10min til end - generally middle/longrange again (supercell, darkness)

The game is actually divided into 3 phases where different ranges are needed.
Im not saying i think deflective was a bad idea, the reason it's so overpowered at the moment is clear when you look at exodus post with the excel. there's only 3 weapons in price (5000-10000 gold, which would be called middlegame weapons)
Poison magic, flamer, laser. Now what's in common for them...? they all have low cooldown, which means there's no shortrange weapon to counter deflective with. This results in 2 solutions. The first one is simply to nerf deflective a little. The second and more preferable one is to create some more shortrange weapons with different cooldown.

Very good summary of the game phases, I tought about that some time ago and came to that exact conclusion!

What I think btanks is missing is weapons between range 1050-1300. Why does there have to be a gap? It would make btanks far more interesting and open up for many new strategics. It would disadvantage the early longrangers at lane a little whom so many people complain about, and make lategame longrange weapons like teo suggest possible because it will be harder to keep that minor range adv then. furthermore it would eliminate the more and more common basic magic + electro if there were weapons with range 1100, 1150, 1200 or 1250.
All this is ofc up for discussion and feedback + ideas are welcome

I am also very curious about why there is a gap in ranges. I think it has something to do with the range of force towers, that's also the reason why longrange weapons don't attack buildings, so you can't destroy a tower without it beeing able to hit you.

[Wupti]

I am also very curious about why there is a gap in ranges. I think it has something to do with the range of force towers, that's also the reason why longrange weapons don't attack buildings, so you can't destroy a tower without it beeing able to hit you.

it's true that the range of towers currently only are 1050 but comeon changing it to 1250 wont do a big difference, only for the good i'd say (against early rangers camping cp) ofc you would have to change range of mortars from 1200-1300 but I don't think they will become totally overpowered just by adding 100 range