Compare between Shortrange and Longrange

[Prog]

That is a bad comparison, because maintenance is currently way too strong for the gold cost and should be changed in my opinion.

[Perfektionist]

That is a bad comparison, because maintenance is currently way too strong for the gold cost and should be changed in my opinion.

then make a new thread and start a vote but the maintenance is not a real lr counter.

[UnifiedDoom]

then make a new thread and start a vote but the maintenance is not a real lr counter.

Actually Maintenance is fine longrange counter. It just has the same problem as double mech did. It's overpowered in midrange fights as well, AND it can be used by the longranger themselves equally effectively (just as double mech could).

[Perfektionist]

Actually Maintenance is fine longrange counter. It just has the same problem as double mech did. It's overpowered in midrange fights as well, AND it can be used by the longranger themselves equally effectively (just as double mech could).

yes and maintenance for lr counter is only good if you got a fast enough tank or long enough stun.

why they dont understand that rangeweapons does to mutch dmg?

[stibi-]

>>> why they dont understand that rangeweapons does to mutch dmg?

compared to .... ?

[Perfektionist]

>>> why they dont understand that rangeweapons does to mutch dmg?

compared to .... ?

if you ask that, you never play alone with light tank or heli on top or bot lane without lr weapons versus a only range player

[BENNIE.FM]

perfekinosit give your account name please for where ever you play

-all weapons use a fine formula in all my years of play the only weapon i have seen any question about was death magic/bombard/torp nothing else has ever been questioned.

[Perfektionist]

perfekinosit give your account name please for where ever you play

-all weapons use a fine formula in all my years of play the only weapon i have seen any question about was death magic/bombard/torp nothing else has ever been questioned.

kinosit

and why? do you want to play with me to show me that LR weapons are op?

my WC3 name is "SmallDragi" (dont ask... thats a very oooooold account )


Btw: what did this "DELETE HB FROM BTANKS
People who think hb is shorter then normal are dum
People who think hb is more balanced then normal is insanely dum and should get a brain ^^
P.S sorry if u hate me for talking the truth haha" mean? HB?

[BENNIE.FM]

ok i will add you in 2 weeks studying

Trust me if long range was that imbalanced map makers would notice it
i do agree that to a certain extent long range does have a small advantage at best,most good players don't die vs range or stay in touch by creeping well and over power after awhile.

[stibi-]

>>> why they dont understand that rangeweapons does to mutch dmg?

compared to .... ?

if you ask that, you never play alone with light tank or heli on top or bot lane without lr weapons versus a only range player

i just did
his range > mine all the time

[Perfektionist]

ok i will add you in 2 weeks studying

Trust me if long range was that imbalanced map makers would notice it
i do agree that to a certain extent long range does have a small advantage at best,most good players don't die vs range or stay in touch by creeping well and over power after awhile.

i played more than 500 games now and since the last year rangeweapons become more popular. One year ago i only saw rangeweapons in mid. Thats why im a only sidelane player) Now often 3 of 5 players are playing rangeweapons and the gameplay slows down and getting bored sometimes.

[Perfektionist]

i just did
his range > mine all the time

but he isnt good. he didnt uppgraded his weapons. (rangeweapons are only overpowered if they uppgraded) if he buyed a second rangeweapon thats the same (overpowered). But he buyed an electrocannon.

[Perfektionist]

And now? Rangeweapons are a problem. Somepeople say that already! (UnifiedDoom, Crag_Hack, Teo_live)

[Max]

Range weapons are a problem when is't overuse and/or used by pro. I played twice vs emze (ofc scout lr) and he got leaver's gold but i didn't feed. If the player u fight is good and you feed him, you would have feed the same if he played "normal" range imo. The solution could be swap with somebody lr on team or just wait as somebody said before. Wait to have some hull or tank.

[Perfektionist]

...
BEST GAME EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (attachment) omg -.- sorry but look at this! 4 of 5 enemys plays rangeweapons! 3-4 of my team play rangeweapons! now say me why???? YES of course THEY ARE OVERPOWERED.

On my lane i can handle the rangeguy because he dont move :S or try stupid diving actions. But if i go top with hull versus a guy with 2 rangeweapons i have NO CHANCE! My team doesn help and the game ends in a stupid boring game.....

And now think about why rangepeople got so many kills at the beginning? why? YES THEY DO TO MUTCH DMG!
And they have no real disavantage...

Thx for listening

[Bob666]

I was going to state that long range should stay just like this, but then I noticed how long range is good in the beginning, but in the end, most of the players focus on really short range for the dps.

However, in my opinion this is not a direct result of the balancing between the ranges, it's more about the creeps becoming meaningless in the end of the game, making you able to get very close to your enemy, which is almost impossible in the very first minutes of the game. Right now I can't think of a way to fix this, as scaling the troops strength up in late game would slow the game down a lot, and reducing their strength in the beginning would make the start boring. However, I think that the solution of the range problem lies there. Simply making long range even weaker would force even more player into short range in the end game. I don't know... Maybe someone else got an idea there. (And items designed to tackle this problem won't solve it throughout the map)

[UnifiedDoom]

I was going to state that long range should stay just like this, but then I noticed how long range is good in the beginning, but in the end, most of the players focus on really short range for the dps.

Actually this is incorrect, based on my personal experience supercell is the #1 most used endgame weapon, particularly on titans.

However, in my opinion this is not a direct result of the balancing between the ranges it's more about the creeps becoming meaningless in the end of the game, making you able to get very close to your enemy, which is almost impossible in the very first minutes of the game. Right now I can't think of a way to fix this, as scaling the troops strength up in late game would slow the game down a lot, and reducing their strength in the beginning would make the start boring. However, I think that the solution of the range problem lies there. Simply making long range even weaker would force even more player into short range in the end game. I don't know... Maybe someone else got an idea there. (And items designed to tackle this problem won't solve it throughout the map)

The trend towards shortrange in the non-titan lategame is simply because of skill synergy. Both infernal robot and sky fortress have multiple skills that greatly favor shortrange play. Depending on the role of Goliath the trend towards shortrange may disappear completely.

I don't think any move should be made to reduce troop's effectiveness in the beginning, any nerf to their hp will only help longrange players, by increasing their ability to push/farm. Troops in the endgame don't make much difference in fights either, in fact they can often serve as a hindrance in multiple ways: feed enemy mass converter, create enemy infernal servants, fuel titan explosive projectiles.

I really think the best solution is just reduce the cost of nets (this has been suggested by several other players earlier), make them more viable in the early game to deal with the oh-so-common longrange helicopter.

[Perfektionist]

I was going to state that long range should stay just like this, but then I noticed how long range is good in the beginning, but in the end, most of the players focus on really short range for the dps.

However, in my opinion this is not a direct result of the balancing between the ranges, it's more about the creeps becoming meaningless in the end of the game, making you able to get very close to your enemy, which is almost impossible in the very first minutes of the game. Right now I can't think of a way to fix this, as scaling the troops strength up in late game would slow the game down a lot, and reducing their strength in the beginning would make the start boring. However, I think that the solution of the range problem lies there. Simply making long range even weaker would force even more player into short range in the end game. I don't know... Maybe someone else got an idea there. (And items designed to tackle this problem won't solve it throughout the map)

In my opinion the first 60 minutes are the best of this mod. Because you cant run into and kill everyone. You need a great tactic and teamplay to win.

In lategame everyone got a teleporter and 20k hp and stay 10 meters away from each other, cast there abilithys and wait until there hp dropps under 3k and teleport out. I already mentioned the best exsample for this is if you look at the actions per minutes in the early game (~130-180 apm) and at the endgame. (~90-130 apm)

The creeps are fine i think. In the endgame i need 2-3 shot for killing one creep like i do in early game.

---

Actually this is incorrect, based on my personal experience supercell is the #1 most used endgame weapon, particularly on titans.

In the engame the best weapons got 1000+ range. And for me shortrange = 1050- range. One stun and the enemy is in range of your weapons. Or he do a small misstage and you can hit him.

The trend towards shortrange in the non-titan lategame is simply because of skill synergy. Both infernal robot and sky fortress have multiple skills that greatly favor shortrange play. Depending on the role of Goliath the trend towards shortrange may disappear completely.

I don't think any move should be made to reduce troop's effectiveness in the beginning, any nerf to their hp will only help longrange players, by increasing their ability to push/farm. Troops in the endgame don't make much difference in fights either, in fact they can often serve as a hindrance in multiple ways: feed enemy mass converter, create enemy infernal servants, fuel titan explosive projectiles.

I really think the best solution is just reduce the cost of nets (this has been suggested by several other players earlier), make them more viable in the early game to deal with the oh-so-common longrange helicopter.

But thats only a solution versus air tanks. Scout or lighttank and a uppgraded bombarding rockeds is impossible to get near without hull. (as lighttank, scout, medivac or heli)

[Max]

...
BEST GAME EVER!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! (attachment) omg -.- sorry but look at this! 4 of 5 enemys plays rangeweapons! 3-4 of my team play rangeweapons! now say me why???? YES of course THEY ARE OVERPOWERED.

On my lane i can handle the rangeguy because he dont move :S or try stupid diving actions. But if i go top with hull versus a guy with 2 rangeweapons i have NO CHANCE! My team doesn help and the game ends in a stupid boring game.....

And now think about why rangepeople got so many kills at the beginning? why? YES THEY DO TO MUTCH DMG!
And they have no real disavantage...

Thx for listening

Well you give a replay of a qualify game, with qualify players. In those games there is more than 50% of noobs players in one game. As we see you take on your lr a good way bot. Why? Maybe because this is not overpowered. Top fed ok. But in a lane there MUST be a winner and a looser. There were some replays (in this year btt i think but i'm not really sure) where wupti plays vs tained on lane. This is the best example. Tained plays heli bombard and wupti not lr. The end of the fight? Wupti win it. This is all about skill, not just about weapon. There were some games i played when i owned lane, something about 4/5-0. Then the other team swaped and i took on BTFGrana who came from middle with 1-1 stats. Result? I fed, and there wasn't any lr in those fights. Lane isn't about weapon you use, it's about players skills. I'm not a good lane player but i can own emze in it (emze = scout bombard start) without playing lr.
In 85-90% of games there is always one player almost playing lr, and this or those players aren't always fed and they don't always own and win with it. Otherwise ALL players would play lr if it was REALLY overpowered.

[Perfektionist]

That is not a viable argument. If it is something to strong, then it is to strong in every game. If you never played versus Me[Rong] in qualify, then do this first. He only play random and sidelanes. If he get the heli he buy bombarding rockeds. He is a really good player he know exactly how far he can go to hit the enemy and its really hard to come close to him if he got rangeweapons. But in closerange he always fail versus me. Maybe i can upploard these days another gameplay whitch shows the imbalance.

"wupti plays vs tained on lane. This is the best example. Tained plays heli bombard and wupti not lr. The end of the fight? Wupti win it. This is all about skill, not just about weapon"

Yes, thats why i like to play sidelanes. But if a better-good player chose rangeweapons the skill is gone. He stay 1250 range away from you and you can see how you hp drops with no single chance to hit him.

"In 85-90% of games there is always one player almost playing lr"

Same in League. One player play everytime rangeweapons. In qualify are only more.

"and this or those players aren't always fed and they don't always own and win with it"

they are? after 10 minutes of gameplay i look mid and see a player with 10/2 in mid. Every game! And they playing rangeweapons. I never saw a midrange player with this K/D in mid after 10 minutes.