Give up on Tinker in League

[ckibibi]

hi
disabling tinker in league will be good :

->tinker is like exploder more fun tank and its hard to teamplay with it (exploder is disabled why not tinker)

->when you see low elo players(1400) its 80% sure that they will go tinker and long range (in some game i got 3 tinker (3!!!) and sometimes i have to beg for someone to go lane because they want to play tinker in mid and none of the fourth want to take lane.

->the other fact is when you are mid and you protect tinker so he can build towers and the others teams got lr too you have to wait before getting hp and try not to feed. And when you farm for the fisrt 10 minutes the tinker and his tower get most of the creeps so your xp is low your gold is low and I feel like watching TD (boring as hell) it can be fun but not in league.


suggestions :
->to buy new tank you switch to pilot for free and buy
->you change the ability of tinker to build tower (he can repair, tp, buff towers but not build tower). like i said in some games I was watching TD for at least 10 minutes. without his tower the tinker would have to fight close and come into fight.
->the tinker can be interesting to play but i never see someone use the tp abilty to play close range in beggining with a hull( that would be hard but I ll respect the play)


as for feedback on Esvau suggestions :

towers will only work with tinker close by

good idea to force tinker to be close.

towers cant carry weapons anymore

best idea, I prefer no towers at all but it would prevent TD.

tower needs to be manually controlled

too hard to play imo

tower do have a lifetime

well it could be good but I dont think it would solve things.

as for the cons of Esvau:

playing short time tinker (3min or so) to start with 2500+ weapon

I disagree scout can be played with the 2500 + weaps only torpedo is expensive but with random and the scout canon u can creeps and buy it soon.

buffing force tower (especially lane tower)

I dont see the things being done : in my games tinker are selfish and only think of mid, plus early game the buff in tower from tinker are weak. And the tecmech is far better and used in almost everygame to repair the lanes towers.

denying besieged team an end game tank

the only point I agree cause I see somes do it very well in games.

[stibi-]

my 20 cent
even a noob tinker can farm more than any other tank in the mid
a "pro" tinker will use his gold advantage to swap to an early air/heavy with 2 torpedos & keep on playing the normal way. from now on he won't creep that much anymore so his mates have a chance to catch up a little but they have the chance to dominate the mid (usually)
a "noob" tinker will use his gold advantage to buy even more range weapons & farm even more & cry for support if his tower get attacked. once the other team has a siege pack/heavy they will destroy the towers, the tinker can't pick his weapons and blame it on the "fucking noob teammates no help" - tadaa game over.
if you force the noobs to take another tank from start on they have no chance anymore to ruin the mid gameplay - imho main reason to disable tinker in league mode

[progg]

I prefere tinker to be banned from league.
The map's name is BATTLE tanks. Not TD engineers.
If i wanted to play tinker i would cr8 TD Engineers map and put all tinker noobs there.
Saying that tinker isn't a problem, but ppl who plays it is a problem is from the logical point of view just fuckin stupid.
Using the same logic i can say - nukes are not bad, so let every man on earth have his own nuke bomb:)
"it's not nuke fault that world had evaporte" It's ppl who can't use the nuke, bla bla bla.

Is this map made for people who plays it or people who makes it?

Great most of ppl who plays it don't want tinker in game.
Look at pro tinker players (for example GrizzlyB) - i think everyone played with him, he plays a lot.
He's a pro tinker. As a tinker he's really good at creeping, choosing good tower spots, tping and make kills by armed tinker etc. When it's time to buy tank (when towers are destroyed, never sooner) he's just an easy farm who gives a lot of gold for killing it.
The result is - his average stats are 15-25 and always when i play with him, no matter how good other players are i never seen somebody with lvl higher than 8 in 20 minute.

In general playing with tinker is having 13-14 minute build in 20 minutes and after towers are destroyed having useless fuckin long range farm in team, who can only cry and feed.
I just had 0-7 or 1-8 run becouse of tinkers.

[Sefariin]

Great most of ppl who plays it don't want tinker in game.

Dont lie bro,most people r fine with tinkers.
Theres only a few guys who cry like shit whenever they see a tinker in their Game and blame him for everything they fail at.

for example the game i had with you 2 hours ago.you feeded and blamed the tinker for it and once the whole team told you to stop feed,you just left.we still won,game last around 1 hour and tinker switched at minute 14 to a Ghost.In this Game Tinker wasnt the Problem...the Problem was guys like you who just chat/flame instead of play concentrated.

Look at pro tinker players (for example GrizzlyB) - i think everyone played with him, he plays a lot.
He's a pro tinker. As a tinker he's really good at creeping, choosing good tower spots, tping and make kills by armed tinker etc. When it's time to buy tank (when towers are destroyed, never sooner) he's just an easy farm who gives a lot of gold for killing it.
The result is - his average stats are 15-25 and always when i play with him, no matter how good other players are i never seen somebody with lvl higher than 8 in 20 minute.

grizzly aint a "pro tinker" look his stats..i always see him feeding when hes on tinker..ur argument is invalid.You cant state the situation of one class/tank by one bad player.

In general playing with tinker is having 13-14 minute build in 20 minutes and after towers are destroyed having useless fuckin long range farm in team, who can only cry and feed.
I just had 0-7 or 1-8 run becouse of tinkers.

in general i started in over 650+games with tinker and i have Ghost/+Torp&Rockets at minute 17-20.

It`s just that too much Noobs playing Tinker these Days.
dont be so easy to ban things from league,games dont get lost because of tinkers,they get lost because of noobs and selfish players!

[Tynkywinky]

Agree with all above

[progg]

Great most of ppl who plays it don't want tinker in game.

Dont lie bro,most people r fine with tinkers.
Theres only a few guys who cry like shit whenever they see a tinker in their Game and blame him for everything they fail at.

It's your interpretation. Most of ppl i talk to are against tinker.

for example the game i had with you 2 hours ago.you feeded and blamed the tinker for it and once the whole team told you to stop feed,you just left.we still won,game last around 1 hour and tinker switched at minute 14 to a Ghost.In this Game Tinker wasnt the Problem...the Problem was guys like you who just chat/flame instead of play concentrated.

I was playing concentrated. But i was playing with 2 1300 tinkers in team aginast 2 1300 stunners + tinker with heli and plasma or basic canon (i don't remember).
I had 2 ways - don't creep and be useless shit, or try to creep and get double stunned. The problem with tinker is that tinker just don't help players using tanks (tinker isn't a tank imo). They make it more dificult for them. Tinker won't share hp. Tinker won't stun enemy rushing at u when you'r low hp etc.
U won bc of leaver gold. If i stayed i would probably stop feed and make positive stats in late game, bc 1300 usually sux in mid/late game.
Having 2 tinkers in team is a disaster for guy using normal tank.

Look at pro tinker players (for example GrizzlyB) - i think everyone played with him, he plays a lot.
He's a pro tinker. As a tinker he's really good at creeping, choosing good tower spots, tping and make kills by armed tinker etc. When it's time to buy tank (when towers are destroyed, never sooner) he's just an easy farm who gives a lot of gold for killing it.
The result is - his average stats are 15-25 and always when i play with him, no matter how good other players are i never seen somebody with lvl higher than 8 in 20 minute.

grizzly aint a "pro tinker" look his stats..i always see him feeding when hes on tinker..ur argument is invalid.You cant state the situation of one class/tank by one bad player.

true. that was bad example. i just don't know any pro tinkers^^
still as a tinker he's better then lot of other tinkers.

In general playing with tinker is having 13-14 minute build in 20 minutes and after towers are destroyed having useless fuckin long range farm in team, who can only cry and feed.
I just had 0-7 or 1-8 run becouse of tinkers.

in general i started in over 650+games with tinker and i have Ghost/+Torp&Rockets at minute 17-20.

I'm not talkin about tinker. I'm talkin about tinker's "partners" in mid.
When u push opposite team and tinker can build towers in mid island it's rly hard to creep and lvl up.
In games with tinkers in 20 minute i'm usually lvl7. (i never use 1300)
In games without i'm usually 9,5 - 10 lvl in 20minute.
that's a HUGE difference and that's what i was talkin about.

It`s just that too much Noobs playing Tinker these Days.
dont be so easy to ban things from league,games dont get lost because of tinkers,they get lost because of noobs and selfish players!

U're right, but tinker is one of things in battle tanks that make it worse map then it could be. For me playing tinker is just against spirit of this game. It's not td engieneers. It's battle tanks!


[/quote]

[Sefariin]

It's your interpretation. Most of ppl i talk to are against tinker.

Thats the interpretation of a Player who has two Accounts with both more then 700games and only seen a few guys who cryed bout Tinker.Overall i can say most of them have bad Stats and just looking for things they can say "look THIS is the reason i suck"

I was playing concentrated. But i was playing with 2 1300 tinkers in team aginast 2 1300 stunners + tinker with heli and plasma or basic canon (i don't remember).
I had 2 ways - don't creep and be useless shit, or try to creep and get double stunned. The problem with tinker is that tinker just don't help players using tanks (tinker isn't a tank imo). They make it more dificult for them. Tinker won't share hp. Tinker won't stun enemy rushing at u when you'r low hp etc.
U won bc of leaver gold. If i stayed i would probably stop feed and make positive stats in late game, bc 1300 usually sux in mid/late game.
Having 2 tinkers in team is a disaster for guy using normal tank.

Maybe whatever...just had another game with you 10 minutes ago..you played pretty bad on 1hour game with 8-17 or something like that.No Tinker in your Team this Time,not even a fair game cuz we had a leaver and you was 3vs1+tinker mid.
You still was gettin owned,your stats are the proof.
You just said playin a tinker cant be successful and ive shown you different times,that it can be.Even my Tinker only Account is way higher in elo than yours.And if would not say im a "pro Tinker" like you called grizzly.
(tinker only means i always start with it,of course i switch tanks later...)

and no your not right.Tinker share dmg...not the tinker by itself but the Towers.Its a Deal between you and Tinker.You help Towers and Towers help you! (:

true. that was bad example. i just don't know any pro tinkers^^
still as a tinker he's better then lot of other tinkers.

A pro Tinker never feeds,if he does hes a bad tinker.And theres alot of them.At this Point youre right!

Tinker gameplay is just totally different to the other Tanks.Which makes it harder to play in some way.
Sure its easy to set up Tower and place LongRange into it.But gettin enough Cash to get Weapons and Tank at the right Time without to feed is hard.And this is what most people fail at.
The fail at placing Towers in a good position and they switch tanks too late or without good weapons.
Tinker gets alot of creeps which makes it harder for mates to get cash too.But also towers works for defense,a decent push and blocks mid shop.

Ive seen Guys who starting with 2x Bow...the eat all creeps without all that positive aspects of a Tinker.
Ive seen Guys who blow up more Teammates with Mines than Enemys.
ive seen alot of shit into this Game and everything of it can turn a Game into Shit.
It just sucks you guys wanna ban a Tank bcuz bad Players cant handle it.
I say dont allow people with 1450 or 1500 to play League..should solve the problem!

I'm not talkin about tinker. I'm talkin about tinker's "partners" in mid.
When u push opposite team and tinker can build towers in mid island it's rly hard to creep and lvl up.
In games with tinkers in 20 minute i'm usually lvl7. (i never use 1300)
In games without i'm usually 9,5 - 10 lvl in 20minute.
that's a HUGE difference and that's what i was talkin about.

Most of People ive played with are fine with 2 Longrange (torp/rocket) in my Towers and creeping is pretty balanced with it.But usually i choose Swarmrockets as second weapon beside of Torp which means i take most of the creeps for 5 minutes.Thats the Time i need to switch for Ghost.People can handle that.
This is what happens when it goes perfectly.Most of the time it dont works like that and its hard to place tower on a good spot without gettin destroyed.So its even harder to creep.
Anyway...youre right..a well played Tinker gets more creeps in the first 10-15minutes.Like people with creep-only weapons...its both okay if not overused by noobs.
Dont come to the Solution to ban one of these Things cuz this is what makes the Game be fun.Always different Players with different Tactics.

U're right, but tinker is one of things in battle tanks that make it worse map then it could be. For me playing tinker is just against spirit of this game. It's not td engieneers. It's battle tanks!

I just see things that reminds me of the PvP Situation of WorldofWarcraft.Take out any hard/different Aspect of the Game and make it all the same...
anyway..what matches better to a Map with Tanks than a Mechking aka Tinker?
I love to put Modules into Towers,repair Towers and Mech from a Mate while my Towers blocks middle Shop and give good defense for my Team and with a little bit luck i get some Kills while dont feed a Dollar to my enemy.
Ilove2PlayTinker and my stats r the proof you dont have to be a feeder to play Tinker.

[Tynkywinky]

Ilove2PlayTinker and my stats r the proof you dont have to be a feeder to play Tinker.

It's very easy to check your stats when you haven't given us any account name to check:P

[El_Polacco]

This league is really going to fail because of tinkers . It doesn't creep well just steal killed creeps of mid allies . Pro players are bored of it and more and more is going to stop play btanks. The second main issue is that noobs with 1450 points are destroying 90% of games. According to progg tinker isn't tank as well as retarded part of game.I noticed that league games are each month low skilled soon each pro will have a longer break just because of destroying games and rank by qualify noobs . Example GrizzlyB called pro tinker is useless after 5mins of game he has no stun just try to kill steal

[griffin1987]

This league is really going to fail because of tinkers . It doesn't creep well just steal killed creeps of mid allies . Pro players are bored of it and more and more is going to stop play btanks. The second main issue is that noobs with 1450 points are destroying 90% of games. According to progg tinker isn't tank as well as retarded part of game.I noticed that league games are each month low skilled soon each pro will have a longer break just because of destroying games and rank by qualify noobs . Example GrizzlyB called pro tinker is useless after 5mins of game he has no stun just try to kill steal

I've been trying out tinker about 20 times since this topic was started (because I was curious) and I can tell you it's not about the tinker - it's about being noob.

For example: Try tinker on lane with energy torpedo, then switch to heli. Makes for a nice combination. Or if possible just stay tinker till you have 2 energy torpedoes and maybe a hull.


Biggest problem of those people ruining a game with tinker is that they play tinker for faaaar to long. Most of them stay being tinker for 10 minutes or even 15 or 20 - but even if you CAN play tinker for about 7 minutes on lane if it's 1vs1, in mid that's just dumb. And thus, the problem isn't really the tinker itself - just remove everyone with ELO < 1500 from league bot (let them play qualify till they get up to 1500 again), and you will see you'll have more or less no problem with tinker (as there won't be that many). There will also be less mines as a side effect

Best Regards

[El_Polacco]

The biggest problem of league is that low skilled are allowed to play anyway tinker is second big trouble. For me no tinker is pro it can't be called a tank it should be removed soon.
Playing league here starts to be pointless and go nowhere if 50% aren't learning this map. That's why i requested to make a second league for qualify noobs who destroy league games

[EarthR]

I will start by saying that no matter how you look at it tinker isnt a team player.

i can only understand the use of tinker just in case somone wants to start with energytorpedos so he uses tinker and then gathers the money for heli or scout or whatever and fast changes to that tank. All other uses are only selfish and cant be called by no means teamplay since tinker isnt playing.

Any other use of tinker and i call the player noob (sorry but thats my opinion no matter how good you play)

Finally a suggestion instead of modifying tinker just make tinker to be able to only build 1 tower and if he wants another one he should destroy this one and build another one this will prevent players from using tinkers since its too easy to destroy 1 tower instead of 5, the creeping ability of towers is gone and the time between tower builds tinker gets no gold unless he is active in game.

[UnifiedDoom]

Finally a suggestion instead of modifying tinker just make tinker to be able to only build 1 tower and if he wants another one he should destroy this one and build another one this will prevent players from using tinkers since its too easy to destroy 1 tower instead of 5, the creeping ability of towers is gone and the time between tower builds tinker gets no gold unless he is active in game.

Do you mean make tinker into scout?

[EarthR]

What Oo? Watch tower is not Rocker(Laser) tower. Watch towers start hitpoints are 400 and Rocket tower has 3000 hp. One can be equiped with itmes the other cant one has time limit the other doesnt has etc. The whole idea about using tinker is get 5 towers make a line that cant be destroyed easily because you have the enrgytorpedo (99% of the time) and your allied tanks and the towers hitpoint regenarate and tinker has to do nothing and gain most of the gold

[toyboatt]

Yes EarthR has it right. The problem with tinker is that his allies are screwed. A good player can make money and not feed with tinker, especially since the buff. But his teammates mid.. well if they want to have a fun game they have to let tinker's towers die. Otherwise they will fall behind in money first, and in exp later.

[griffin1987]

Yes EarthR has it right. The problem with tinker is that his allies are screwed. A good player can make money and not feed with tinker, especially since the buff. But his teammates mid.. well if they want to have a fun game they have to let tinker's towers die. Otherwise they will fall behind in money first, and in exp later.

That only occurs if you've got a mid-team made up of people who suicide against anything with range > 1299. Well, back to "there are too many noobs in league" - though it seems that most people in here don't see that with the start of league we traded the quality of games for the quantity of them.

[GEN_Schwarzkopf]

Tinker would be balanced if photon torpedo was removed from the game.

Photon Torpedo is higher damage and higher range and lower cooldown than any of Tier 1 tanks level 1 nukes.

Photon Torpedo is what needs to go.

[PROGGKILLER]

well is true i played a lot of tinker mass range ( grizzlyb) last year is true this sucks for team later,
this year i change, i play tinker torp with tp in begin so team can creep, later tower so tower dont be so powerfull and team can creep, switch with medium range in second weapon and change tank fast if adv team good if they noobs can stay tinker more. medium range + tp can do a lot of dmg.
I dont care about mad guys says about me, i played a lot of good games with tinker team play even i had a lot of good apreciation of my team but when i get a anti tinker in team is over and is not tinker fault if he sabotage game by ignore tinker and do all to tinker be killed, wake up ur attitude is childish and is useles to blame tinker after.
In fact in begin tinker cant kill with only one shoot. Me with tp i push close creeps, if team mates comes with me they get easy kills after my shoot torpedo... but players like progg let tinkers die only to proove that tinker are bad so they play no team game and they dont get kills after cry that tinker fault. They even dont wanna try to play with a tinker... that attitude must been banned...

Best regards
Tinker is good if used with brain and team play with...

[EarthR]

you miss the point proggkiller. Tinker as well as scout arent team play tanks no matter what you do. Thats the most important part most players dont understand. It doesnt matter if you let your teamates creep or whatever it is still selfish build and useless. With tinker and (scout) you have no stun or other abilities that help your teamates to do enemy kills and that lets enemy players creep well and they can survive and save gold for long period without spending money unless they are less skilled and dotn know what to do and die. Learn to play with tank and change the attitude that says tinker is team play tank because it isnt. You cant do stun to do an attack and the most important part is that you dont share damage when teamate is attacked or does an attack.

Just saying to think about it instead of showing up and writing your argument about why it is team tank. 2 vs 3 in mid isnt easy to play its even worse when its 1 vs 3 because there is a tinker and a scout or 2 scouts.

playing for creeping only is selfish.