Earthrobot - pls buff it somehow

[Althend]

I have been watching your replay for your pleisure. I saw 2 feeders, a whole opponent team without hull (or iron hull) (each of them had less than 6000hp), you mainly killed the helicopter (who stayed copter the whole game) and the demolisher... When you fighted the airship you had most of the time to retreat. You had earth robot hp +gold hull so the same amount of hp than 3 enemies... (they had really bad build) Looking at the replay, it confirm my opinion, you could do better with another tank like the sky tank or heav or... or the hunter. (since they have low hp, hunter would have made a lot of easy kills).
You based your play for this game on high amount of hp coupled with regen item. I think you could do that with any other tank.
You could win faster with any other build more agressive.

[Tom-Ace]

Lets take sky tank and compare it to the earth robot shall we.

Ok first off both tanks have a channeling spell that attacks ground, and both have a speed of 300.
Both tanks have a auto-cannon, and both have 8 armor
Sky tank is 8000 gold with 6500 hp

Earth robot is 7500 gold with 7500 hp

And a lot of people talk about how sky can outrun the earth robot, well earth robot with a speed boost has a max of 450, now the sky tank has a max (with its skill set to max and speed pack) will have a speed of 512.

Also remember with the earth robots transparent armor set to max will have armor of 17,
that is 9 more armor then the sky tank, also nether earth robot or the sky tank have a stun spell.

And one more last thing, you can buy a net to hold sky tanks for 3 sec, just tp in net and use earthquake.

[Althend]

Lets take sky tank and compare it to the earth robot shall we.

Ok first off both tanks have a channeling spell that attacks ground, and both have a speed of 300.
Both tanks have a auto-cannon, and both have 8 armor
Sky tank is 8000 gold with 6500 hp

Earth robot is 7500 gold with 7500 hp

And a lot of people talk about how sky can outrun the earth robot, well earth robot with a speed boost has a max of 450, now the sky tank has a max (with its skill set to max and speed pack) will have a speed of 512.

Also remember with the earth robots transparent armor set to max will have armor of 17,
that is 9 more armor then the sky tank, also nether earth robot or the sky tank have a stun spell.

And one more last thing, you can buy a net to hold sky tanks for 3 sec, just tp in net and use earthquake.

The armor is not at all important...
And waste 200 each time you miss. The ground ability of sky makes 1000 damage each sec during 5 sec. (and it is not and ultima and does not need to stay still) The second ground skill do a lot too.
The sky is air, fast and is able to hunt and escape easily. What about earth? It is slow, it can't do anything against air (using a net ok...waste a slot and 200 gold each time you miss; even the goblin does have skills who affects really air)

[ChronicStoned]

Lets take sky tank and compare it to the earth robot shall we.

Ok first off both tanks have a channeling spell that attacks ground, and both have a speed of 300.
Both tanks have a auto-cannon, and both have 8 armor
Sky tank is 8000 gold with 6500 hp

Earth robot is 7500 gold with 7500 hp

And a lot of people talk about how sky can outrun the earth robot, well earth robot with a speed boost has a max of 450, now the sky tank has a max (with its skill set to max and speed pack) will have a speed of 512.

Also remember with the earth robots transparent armor set to max will have armor of 17,
that is 9 more armor then the sky tank, also nether earth robot or the sky tank have a stun spell.

And one more last thing, you can buy a net to hold sky tanks for 3 sec, just tp in net and use earthquake.

the armor doesnt matter because the tanks armor is only affected by physical attacks (creeps, tower,...)
which matters is the %tage dmg reduction the earth recives with transparent armor and while using granate defense.

also you forgot that the sky tank wont sit still when the earthrobot tps next to him and is using his quake spell,
the sky will use the fire spell and his ultimate which combined will deal more dmg than the earthquake because the sky wont sit in the spell the whole duration (quake does 5*400 dmg @ lvl1 which is 1200-1600 dmg, sky does flame strike-3*200 dmg (+3seconds 50dmg/sec)@lvl1 and energybomb-1280@lvl1.
in addition the sky tank might port away too

[Tom-Ace]

Well flame strike skill is one of the easiest to get away from, and armor not all important........What?
With the 17 armor a laser only does 400 damage because earth robot has a 50% reduction in damage, also add 60% reduction of the 400 from the laser because of granite defense, and you get 160 damage a second.

Sky tank has about a 30% reduction in damage the same laser will do 560 damage to the sky tank.

I just dont know why so many people suck so hard with the earth robot it is one of the best tanks, i think battle tanks has to many long range newbies that only know how to get a fast sky tank and nothing else.
I think about i have killed more tanks with the earth then the demon, people just dont know how to play is all, and try to find a excuse why they can destroy tanks with the earth robot.

And please whine all you want, and maybe Exodos will change the earth robot then you all will be back on here saying its to imba.

[DerSatan]

With the 17 armor a laser only does 400 damage because earth robot has a 50% reduction in damage, also add 60% reduction of the 400 from the laser because of granite defense, and you get 160 damage a second.

Sky tank has about a 30% reduction in damage the same laser will do 560 damage to the sky tank.

this info might interest you: the armor is not affecting tank weapons and abilities. this means, the laser will do the same damage to a tank with -135 armor, as well as to a tank with 523 armor. it does exactly the damage which is stated in its tooltip.

however, granite defense does affect tank weapons and abilities, as it includes a magical damage reduction. but this skill is most often useless, with the high speed reduction you barely get to fight with this skills activated more than 1-2 seconds. just in CP fights its a really good skill.

I just dont know why so many people suck so hard with the earth robot it is one of the best tanks

maybe now you know. the high armor just makes the earth robot not dying too fast to creeps. but this doesnt make him one of the best tanks in my opinion.

And please whine all you want, and maybe Exodos will change the earth robot then you all will be back on here saying its to imba.

at the moment, he is just too weak, so we are searching for a balance, not for an imba tank.

granite defense is a nice skill
dust wave is useful, but could be better (i think antigrav's jump is better than this skill, but thats a matter of opinion)
transparent armor is at most annoying people because you are harder to see
earthquake (ultimate) is often just plain useless. it cant do anything against air tanks, tanks who can stun other tanks and dont want earthquake to be cast, and tanks who got a teleporter and dont want to get affected by earthquake. additionally, if the enemy got a speed upgrade, they normally just leave the earthquake area quick before getting the full damage.

[Tom-Ace]

Well not really i just did a test with two earth robots both with long laser, i had 17 armor the other person had 8 and i won with a bit over 1k hp i think, there was no Interference from creeps or any other skills so armor does work vs weapons. also here is the reply of that test.

[DerSatan]

ahh yeah.


armor does NOT affect tank weapons and abilities, BUT the skill transparent armor offers magical damage reduction in addition to bonus armor. its 4% per level. i didnt look it up and couldnt remember that it has that reduction, i just saw you calculating with armor.

in this context i'd like to know if/how transparent armor stacks with granite defense... (?)

still, earth robot is too weak in its current existance. i've played him some times to test as he was new (or changed), but i've considered him not as good as other tanks in his pricerange.




btw: if you compare transparent armor to goblin turbo (goblin tank + shredder), goblin turbo is most probably considered better, although both goblin tanks are cheaper than earth robot.



goblin turbo gives 3% magical damage reduction per level, and 2% speed increase per level.

the speed increase raises the speed of the goblin from 310 to 341 on level 5, and with speed upgrade from 460 to 506 (!).


transparent armor gives 4% magical damage reduction, bonus armor against creeps and towers, and an annoying visual transparency.

[Tom-Ace]

Well if take the max magic reduction (20%) that is fixed, so if you add granite defense it will deduct off of the already reduced damage.

lets say 100 damage with the 20% you will get 80 damage delt, then take the 80 add the granite defense with its 60% and you get 32 damage delt.
I dont think they stack and make 80% reduction.

[DerSatan]

i could speculate, too, but i wanted to know if someone is actually sure about it (preferably exodus).

3 possibilities:

it doesnt stack, higher reduction works (60%)

it stacks consecutively (68%)

it stacks cumulative (80%)

[Tom-Ace]

Well if noone does know we can always test it, just do a test with one, then the other, then both and see how much hp you have left every time.

I think only Blizzard knows if it stacks or not because it is part of wc3, and not a modded spell/skill made by Exodos.

[Exodus]

Well, the reduction has to be 68%. There are two different methods used for reducing the damage. The 20% from Transparent armor is just a normal magic resistance. The 60% from Granitic Defense however is based on a damage event. Whenever a unit with the Granitic Defense buff receives damage, 12% * (Level of Granatic Defense) * (taken damage) is added the the life of the unit. Note that Granitic Defense reduces every kind of damage, not just spell damage.

[qweqqweq]

of couse they had feeders in my game! I was 31-1 for christ sake. i was only 3-0 in the first 10 minutes though and my team was only up 1 kill at 15 minutes although we did get 1 extra cp by 5 minutes and 2 extra cps by 10 minutes. it may be true that i could have forced a win no matter what tank i got though. that's a good point althend.

i'll just stick to the facts and make one last argument for the earth tank's supremacy:

1. an earth tank is practically impossible to kill. it's got so much damage reduction so the only reason it would die is if a player is taking big chances. This makes it a great tank to have if you've got a player advantage like in a 5vs4.

2. the earth tank's earthquake is very strong against buildings. the range on it is pretty big and you can cast it from long range. you can annihilate towers and factories with it very fast and any ground unit that tries to get in your way too.

[DerSatan]

1. an earth tank is practically impossible to kill. it's got so much damage reduction so the only reason it would die is if a player is taking big chances. This makes it a great tank to have if you've got a player advantage like in a 5vs4.

2. the earth tank's earthquake is very strong against buildings. the range on it is pretty big and you can cast it from long range. you can annihilate towers and factories with it very fast and any ground unit that tries to get in your way too.

these points indeed apply more or less, still it seems earth robot is weak compared to other tanks. dont forget that every tank has nice features. at least we should try to buff him a bit, to make players willing to give him another try by reading in changelog that he has been buffed, and by seeing other players playing and testing him. my suggestions:

1) give the dust wave some love. improve the range a bit as level increases, and make it possible to choose the range by clicking at a point, with the same logic as the antigrav jump.

why: this ability should be more versatile. as it is great to reatreat (fast clicking -> still maximum distance), it is much more to actively chase a tank, as the range is always the same. earth robot is a tank adept in defense, but it should get a bit more offensive potential too.

2) replace the transparent armor skill

why: its boring when you play him, annoying when face him: pure, passive defense. also: the transparency effect doesnt fit to the tank in my opinion. a huge earth robot, made of concrete rocks and soil becomes invisible? why? is he a magician, or transform his stones into glass? doesnt seem logical if the tooltip does not grant any additional information. à propos: if this ability and granite defense are kept on earth robot, one of their tooltips should tell how they interact (stack).

3) the ultimate needs a buff.

why: its useless so often, even if you face ground tanks mainly. my favorite solution was to "un-channel" it, making the earth robot able to move and chase enemies the same time he wants to earthquake them. this also prevents a heavy tank from just "denying" an ultimate of a 2000 gold more expensive tank by just sending a rocket as soon as its cast.


yea, just give 1 or 2 of these a try, and earth robot will maybe be seen in games again. as long he isnt chosen in games, its hard to tell if hes balanced. but beeing never chosen, it doesnt seem like hes so great, or even balanced.

[Morkardar]

Simple way of buffing him:

Transparent Armor:
Add this ability oder change it to this one
Blocks a spell every x seconds
lvl 1 90
lvl 2 75
lvl 3 60
lvl 4 45
lvl 5 30

Earthquake:
Slows the same amount as Hunter's acid cloud does and maybe increase the area.
Ok Hunter is more expensive but the cloud is much better and it is not his ulti.

The Spellblock is unique in Btanks!
This would make the ultimate cool again and buff him a lot, by giving him even more reduce for active target spells.

[DerSatan]

The Spellblock is unique in Btanks!
This would make the ultimate cool again and buff him a lot, by giving him even more reduce for active target spells.

except for dota. compare it to linkins sphere (item), its not unique. furthermore, it would just add more defense to the earth robot, while games still can last a long time. i dont think its the way to go to introduce a tank which cant kill and cant be killed.

[ChronicStoned]

im not sure if the spell block will work, i think it will also block 1 weaponshot every 90 seconds or what ever, because they are magical based too
(is phenixfire blockable with spellshield??)



tom
if the earth robot moves out of the flame strike the earth quake would stop too.
and remember the net only lasts 3 seconds.
so the earth robot has to port next to sky tank, use net befor sky tank might port away.
then use granatic defense and then his ultimate without moving.
all this in 3 seconds - do you really think the sky would stay still defenseless?
possibilitys:
-port away BEFOR net is used
-the sky tank uses his own skills which will deal more dmg in thos 3 seconds than the eath ones

so it depends on what players play those tanks ofcourse you will own noobs with the earth robot-a noob wont run away when the earth is using granatic defense
also the noob wont teleport away, he wont even have a teleporter
and a noob wont be so 'cool' to stay calm and use his skills while the earth robot tps out of nowhere next to him

[Morkardar]

The Spellblock is unique in Btanks!
This would make the ultimate cool again and buff him a lot, by giving him even more reduce for active target spells.

except for dota. compare it to linkins sphere (item), its not unique. furthermore, it would just add more defense to the earth robot, while games still can last a long time. i dont think its the way to go to introduce a tank which cant kill and cant be killed.

That is why I wrote Btanks.
And with giving him spellblock and increasing ulti slow and area EarthTank will get stronger.

im not sure if the spell block will work, i think it will also block 1 weaponshot every 90 seconds or what ever, because they are magical based too
(is phenixfire blockable with spellshield??)

Phönixfire isn't blocked by spellshield.
You should play more footy

[qweqqweq]

the scout used to have a spell block and i think it did work. i don't think spell damage and spells are in the same category. i think that spells can do normal type damage or any other type of damage and vice versa but a spell is still a spell no matter what. i think that spell block doesn't work for battle tanks becasue it makes low hit point long range tanks too powerful as it did for the scout. And i think that if there was a spell block it would need to be a very expensive item like power pack or ultimate pack or an ability for a very expensive end-game tank like sky fortress, infernal, or titan.

ok, anyone wants to go on arguing that the earth tank's weak after this i won't try to add my two cents but just one more time i will coment.

first off, i don't usually have any problems using earth tank to attack and i don't see it as a purely defensive tank. it's actually one of 3 tanks that can use a spell to get into an enemy base fast, plus it's got the defensive ability to survive long enough to do some damage in an attack before it has to run away.

it's true if you play against an earth tank you can stun his as soon as he ults and you can avoid him when he starts glowing with extra defense buff. but everyting can be countered in btanks. it's also possible to get teleport, smoke, troops, or orbital for earth tank and use him as a ninja tank to demolish bases fast. you can also have a teamate stun nearby enemies right before you ult them and use your active armor skill so that they can't cancel your earthquake with their own stun or run away.

At high levels the earth tank does 20% spell damage reduction passivly and is hard to see! Also, 50% of normal damage is reduced passively!
At high levels the earth tank does 20% spell damage reduction passivly and is hard to see! Also, 50% of normal damage is reduced passively!
At high levels the earth tank does 20% spell damage reduction passivly and is hard to see! Also, 50% of normal damage is reduced passively!
At high levels the earth tank does 20% spell damage reduction passivly and is hard to see! Also, 50% of normal damage is reduced passively!
At high levels the earth tank does 20% spell damage reduction passivly and is hard to see! Also, 50% of normal damage is reduced passively!
At high levels the earth tank does 20% spell damage reduction passivly and is hard to see! Also, 50% of normal damage is reduced passively!
At high levels the earth tank does 20% spell damage reduction passivly and is hard to see! Also, 50% of normal damage is reduced passively!
At high levels the earth tank does 20% spell damage reduction passivly and is hard to see! Also, 50% of normal damage is reduced passively!
At high levels the earth tank does 20% spell damage reduction passivly and is hard to see! Also, 50% of normal damage is reduced passively!
At high levels the earth tank does 20% spell damage reduction passivly and is hard to see! Also, 50% of normal damage is reduced passively!
At high levels the earth tank does 20% spell damage reduction passivly and is hard to see! Also, 50% of normal damage is reduced passively!
At high levels the earth tank does 20% spell damage reduction passivly and is hard to see! Also, 50% of normal damage is reduced passively!

so just to recap, ANY spell damage gets reduced by 20% no matter what and any normal damage reduced by 50% no matter what also. he can be completely surounded and ALL the damage will be reduced and that's just a passive skill.

Earthquake only lasts five seconds and does 4,000 damage (1,200 damage a second) and 70% move speed reduction. As an example, a level 18 cannon tower has 21,000 hit points so 1 earthquake alone can do almost 1/5 damage to it while damaging creeps, tanks, and other buildings around it.

the active defensive spell of the earth tank also lasts for 5 seconds, coincidence? it can be cast while channeling earthquake and not de-activate earthquake. it reduces 60% more damage of ALL damage types!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

i don't use the Q spell very much and i usually get the tank cannon leveled up before it becasue it costs too much mana but at higher levels i think it's great for moving around in an enemy base in a way that no other tank can and it can be slightly useful.

i think people just don't use the earth tank much now because they only know how to fly all over the map really fast and/or play with stun. earth tank can't do either of those two things so it can be a little confusing to figure out how to use it. I think most people just haven't learned how to use it effectively yet. if fido1 didn't play hunter often i really doubt many people would be using it either. before i saw how he used it i never really realized just how it could be used effectively. then i started using it and now i see it used all the time. Before, almost never.

I used to play earth tank a lot at first. i was going to start using it again but i hadn't finished learning how to play air ship yet (i'd almost never played it untill a month or two ago, seeing bom)I(, frechheit, and indeterminismuss use it effectively made me realize it was a nice tank). Now i'm going to have fun using earth tank again and because i usually do very good with it i've got a strong susupicion that in a weak or two you'll all start seeing it in your games again.

[Althend]

I think you all give too much usefulness to the damage reduction. A -20 % is the same as if you add 20% to your hp, you need 10k hp to get a bonus of 2k... Is it really great? The shredder and the gob have a better ability. May only 15% but more speed.
Having +80% hp for 5 sec... Sorry but i really think that it is creepy :p
Qweqqweq you suggest that this ability is linked to the ultima. Isn't this sad you must waste a skill just in order to use a weak ultima? (as said above, hunter's cloud is much more better)